Do you still believe the doctrine after leaving?

[tssp]

I still believe in Jesus name baptism and being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues but haven't followed the outward appearance standards in years. I also don't drink, smoke, chew or have tattoos thank the lord. I don't believe in low necklines or short shorts. In fact, I very rarely wear shorts. I was brought up to do all things in moderation. I was brought up in the UPC but my parents allowed me to wear slacks if I wanted to. I've never been one to wear much makeup though, it just never looks right when I do it. I agree with the statement made earlier that black lipstick and nail polish looks like something out of the occult and I don't know why anyone that calls themself a child of God would want to look like that! But that's my opinion.

[RandyWayne]

I must be in the %1 that doesn't believe in ACT 2:38 AS IT IS USUALLY INTERPRETED. Basically I'm a 1-stepper and ditching the standards as heaven/or/hell issues was instrumental in seeing how the 3-step process for salvation is essentially the same thing.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

- I still baptize in Jesus name, but with a twist that most apostolics do not understand. Because it is recorded that Jesus commanded us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost I baptize using these words: "Upon the confession of your faith in Jesus the Christ as your savior and upon the command of Christ, In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost I now baptize you into the Lord Jesus Christ."

I read, and largely agree with your post-at least the spirit of your post (not all of your opinions). However, I certainly do think using such baptismal formula is a compromise catch all. Why not throw in the name "YHWH" to make the sacred name people happy also?

After reading that, I wasn't suprised to read the next part:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

(Incidently, I am on staff of a Charismatic church and when the senior pastor found out how I baptize he decided that everyone will be baptized that way and now I do most of the baptizing in our church).

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

First, a few sentences on my background: I was raised until about age 7 in a UPC church (until about 1953). Our pastor left UPC around that time. In 1959 I received the Holy Ghost in a Pentecostal Church of God at age 12. At age 16 I returned to a UPC church then went to a UPC college graduating in 1969. I pastored and evangelized in the UPC until I left the UPC in 1981. This basic outline may help you see where I am coming from.

When I quit requiring others, and myself, to live by the standards that I never did really believe, and fellowship with other believers that I never really did believe had not been saved because they didn't get it the way I did, a whole new world opened up to me.

To answer the questions:
- Yes I still believe in the oneness. My statement on this issue is that There is but one God and He is Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- I still baptize in Jesus name, but with a twist that most apostolics do not understand. Because it is recorded that Jesus commanded us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost I baptize using these words: "Upon the confession of your faith in Jesus the Christ as your savior and upon the command of Christ, In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost I now baptize you into the Lord Jesus Christ." (Incidently, I am on staff of a Charismatic church and when the senior pastor found out how I baptize he decided that everyone will be baptized that way and now I do most of the baptizing in our church).

Here are some observations:
- Trinitarians do not believe in three Gods and they all believe that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.
- They do not hate oneness folks because of their doctrine, they are offended at their attitude toward other believers.
- Trinitarian believers teach that we are baptized into Christ, not the godhead and Christian baptism represtents that.
- Is Acts 2:38 essential? Yes it is; but the way many apply it is not.
- Many in the "apostolic" churches live in compromise because they are afraid to express what they really believe for fear of being put down or being thought of as "a compromiser." Isn't it ironic that people will compromise their true feelings to keep from being called a compromiser
- Fear is a great tool in keeping people from going forward in their understanding of God and the body of Christ.

That's not true -- Trinitarians believer our doctrine of the godhead to be heretical plain and simple. I've interacted with some pretty well-known Trinitarian scholars on this, and all agree its heretical. Some are given a little credence because we still believe in Christ's deity, but most by and far think Oneness theology is a joke in light of Orthodox teachings.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

That's not true -- Trinitarians believer our doctrine of the godhead to be heretical plain and simple. I've interacted with some pretty well-known Trinitarian scholars on this, and all agree its heretical. Some are given a little credence because we still believe in Christ's deity, but most by and far think Oneness theology is a joke in light of Orthodox teachings.

Thanks for your anecdotal evidence, I have some too and mine is the exact opposite. I have had interaction with a lot of Trinitarians scholars while taking classes in Theology at Regent, and not one of them expressed the idea it was heretical. I have also worked with Trinitarians within their ministry some for several years and even held teaching position within their churches and NEVER had that response. Certainly there are those out there that are ALWAYS right and anything they disagree with is heretical.

[ManOfWord]

I'm as oneness as the day is long! Even Epley agrees with that.....and that's saying something. I will ALWAYS baptize in Jesus' name and I preach that sin is sin! Hardly ever talk about the outward. I've found that if I focus on the inward, the rest takes care of itself. I've also found that no matter where you draw the line, people will cross it. In other words, you can't make anyone live holy or righteous. So.....I just try to stick with the Bible, be a servant and let God deal with His children.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

That's not true -- Trinitarians believer our doctrine of the godhead to be heretical plain and simple. I've interacted with some pretty well-known Trinitarian scholars on this, and all agree its heretical. Some are given a little credence because we still believe in Christ's deity, but most by and far think Oneness theology is a joke in light of Orthodox teachings.

I've also found the opposite when the oneness is presented in the right way. Too often oneness folks start out with why Trinitarianism is wrong, blasphemy and every one who believes it is hell bound. I have taught entire groups of trinitarians (even doctoral candidates) and not had any of them have a problem with oneness teaching. It's all in the presentation and attitude. The vast majority of oneness preachers should be ashamed of themselves for their exclusive, arrogant attitude toward those who are following all they have ever known. WE are the ones who are supposed to be the bridge builders if we have the truth not them. That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I'm as oneness as the day is long! Even Epley agrees with that.....and that's saying something. I will ALWAYS baptize in Jesus' name and I preach that sin is sin! Hardly ever talk about the outward. I've found that if I focus on the inward, the rest takes care of itself. I've also found that no matter where you draw the line, people will cross it. In other words, you can't make anyone live holy or righteous. So.....I just try to stick with the Bible, be a servant and let God deal with His children.

I agree with you MOW, but the question is have you left the doctrine>

I think that menas the 3 step or hell doctrine of the UPC and other orgs'

Yes is my answer. i have left the doctrine that teaches ALL but us OP will burn in hell.

A doctruine that declares that if you have not spoke in tongues you are lost.

a doctrine that declares that even if you speak in tongues and are not baptised in the method and mode we proclaim to be the only mode recognized by God that will burn in hell....Yes, Thank God I have been delivered from that doctrine.

Do I believe in one God? Yes Do I baptize in Jesus name? Yes

Do I think someone has to jiggle your jaw and twirl you round and round till you speak in tongues to be saved???? Nope !!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I must be in the %1 that doesn't believe in ACT 2:38 AS IT IS USUALLY INTERPRETED. Basically I'm a 1-stepper and ditching the standards as heaven/or/hell issues was instrumental in seeing how the 3-step process for salvation is essentially the same thing.

I'm with you.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Thanks for your anecdotal evidence, I have some too and mine is the exact opposite. I have had interaction with a lot of Trinitarians scholars while taking classes in Theology at Regent, and not one of them expressed the idea it was heretical. I have also worked with Trinitarians within their ministry some for several years and even held teaching position within their churches and NEVER had that response. Certainly there are those out there that are ALWAYS right and anything they disagree with is heretical.

I didn't know I needed footnotes and AP citations to make a claim that is quite obvious. There are some charismatic churches that use people if they aren't even saved, so it wouldn't surprise me that that are some that use people, even if they are a Modalist. But, by and far, fundamentalists, scholars, teachers and prominent leaders within Trinitarian circles see Modalism as a great heresy. It sounds like you've encountered for tolerant people in your studies and ministry. My experience has been opposite, and any Trinitarian's position papers would support that.