Why Such A Fuss Over Standards!!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

BTW, I would have been shocked as well. When God puts us in a place it's for a reason - He is building a church! Sometimes, as in our lives and in our experience, He has told us to stay and sit tight and others times He has instructed us to leave. We don't make our own choices - that's how people get out of the will of God and that is, IMO, what is going wrong in the church.

All you are doing is teaching someone to "chunk" it, if you don't like it. We taught our children - "We will see this through. We will do what God has instructed us to do."

How will we teach our children to bear up through tough times in their future lives if we leave because someone is rubbing us the wrong way? We taught our children to stick things out - don't cut and run!

What if Jesus wouldn't have endured the cross, despising the shame because he was sick of it?

Who is driving whom? Are we driving God or is He driving us?

Apples and oranges. Jesus endured on the cross at the hands of his enemies and for the sake of our sins. The church isn't supposed to persecute its own. If we endure persecution, it should be proudly, at the hands of unbelievers who are by proxy persecuting Christ--not at the hands of those who are supposed to exemplify him.

The relationship with the mother in question is too complex to go into, so I'll just drop that one for now. Suffice it to say, though, her children would not have been harmed going to perhaps Bro. Treece's church or Bro. Ewing's, or some of the other fantastic churches in the area. God is building a church. Made up of the whole of believers. That is unrelated, IMO, to which believers we assemble with for worship, prayer and the Word on a regular basis.

I can guaranTEE you that if someone mistreated my children in our present assembly, and it couldn't be resolved, and my children were continually hurt by the situation, I would remove them promptly to a healthier atmosphere. I've known of pastor's kids who had to attend a different church because remaining in the place where they had grown up, with people who didn't necessarily treat them right, was hindering their spiritual growth. Once they relocated, they were able to mature and reach their full potential.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You are continuing to overlook the fact that the whole point is that you made a commitment to serve Him and He directs your path. He provide jobs, etc. He opens doors, etc. He doesn't have to write it on the wall, but He does guide and direct. His hand is in everything we do, when our heart is for Him.

How am I overlooking that fact? I attribute the events of our lives to His guidance, whether I asked Him about it specifically or not. You seem to be saying that unless a person asks Him first, and gets a clear answer, no move should be made. My point of view is that He will open doors as He sees fit, and close others. When I see a door He has opened, I'll walk through it by faith, and my answer might be on the other side.

This kind of relates back to the fasting issue. You've stated that you only fast when God directs you, but I see value in fasting even without a specific directive, for the purpose of denying self.

I appreciate your perspective on this, but your experience with God is not the same as mine. (Square 1)

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Apples and oranges. Jesus endured on the cross at the hands of his enemies and for the sake of our sins. The church isn't supposed to persecute its own. If we endure persecution, it should be proudly, at the hands of unbelievers who are by proxy persecuting Christ--not at the hands of those who are supposed to exemplify him.

The relationship with the mother in question is too complex to go into, so I'll just drop that one for now. Suffice it to say, though, her children would not have been harmed going to perhaps Bro. Treece's church or Bro. Ewing's, or some of the other fantastic churches in the area. God is building a church. Made up of the whole of believers. That is unrelated, IMO, to which believers we assemble with for worship, prayer and the Word on a regular basis.

I can guaranTEE you that if someone mistreated my children in our present assembly, and it couldn't be resolved, and my children were continually hurt by the situation, I would remove them promptly to a healthier atmosphere. I've known of pastor's kids who had to attend a different church because remaining in the place where they had grown up, with people who didn't necessarily treat them right, was hindering their spiritual growth. Once they relocated, they were able to mature and reach their full potential.

Matthew 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh!"

I don't normally like to share too much regarding the church, but in this instance I will.

My children have been treated HORRIBLY by leadership. We didn't cut and run. You know why they were treated horribly? Because we refused to be "suck-ups" in the church. This particular leadership hated us for it. We refused to be liars. Who did they hate the most - me! Because I'm the women of the house and I'm the easier target.

I explained to my children the problem, explained to them what God wanted from us out of the Word and that was that - WE WILL SEE IT THROUGH!

We did see it through for our part. God moved those people. For NINE years we were blamed after we resigned our positions and THIS TIME, God told us to move away from there.

NINE years later, the tempest in the teapot came boiling out for all the church to see! We weren't there, fortunately, but you know what the people saw - how WE handled it while we were in attendance - that is more important than my personal, hurt feelings. My children saw my tears, my struggle and my submission to the will of God.

Sobriety is the important thing - the most important.

[ILG]

I sacrificed my children on the altar of seeing things through and I would never do it again. I thought I had to. I thought I was doing "God's will". I thought I was doing the right thing. My children are pretty well turned out in the long run. Not perfect, but pretty well. I would never, ever allow this again though, if I had to do it over. I would realize that my FIRST job in life is to PROTECT my children and not fancy myself as fighting some super-spiritual battle like I thought I was. I was pretty self-deluded. And deluded other-wise. But, thankfully I have been able to apologize to my children and move on rather than them moving on without me and me telling them they are going to hell because they aren't the fools I was.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by ILG

Are you saying anyone who reacts the right way will end up living exactly like you???

No, not at all! Neither of the two people were me. That didn't enter
my mind.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

How am I overlooking that fact? I attribute the events of our lives to His guidance, whether I asked Him about it specifically or not. You seem to be saying that unless a person asks Him first, and gets a clear answer, no move should be made. My point of view is that He will open doors as He sees fit, and close others. When I see a door He has opened, I'll walk through it by faith, and my answer might be on the other side.

This kind of relates back to the fasting issue. You've stated that you only fast when God directs you, but I see value in fasting even without a specific directive, for the purpose of denying self.

I appreciate your perspective on this, but your experience with God is not the same as mine. (Square 1)

Abigail,
You are passing yourself on your words. You are saying - "When I see a door He has opened..." Abigail, you saw direction. God guided - that' how it works. Why? Because in your heart that is what you believe that He does and so He does it. I think you just enjoy arguing with me!!!

I know some people don't care for Joyce Meyers and I know I wouldn't listen to her on a regular basis, but recently she was in our area and a friend was sharing something she said.

This is very awesome because it is true! She was sharing that she was going to speak at a meeting in San Antonio and a piece of hair kept sticking up. She couldn't get it right! God spoke to her that she should ask that He would help her. She thought, "I'm not going to ask God to help me with my hair!"

Well, pretty soon she was forced to because she had to get it fixed. Guess what? It worked and her hair was ready. She said she learned a huge lesson - GOD wants to be involved in every minute detail of our lives!

I rejoiced when I heard that because I believe it!!! If I can't find my car keys, I ask Him to show me where they are? If I need a new outfit, I ask Him to help me find what I want at the price I want to pay!

That is how real living for God, in the Spirit, is to me!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Falla39

No, not at all! Neither of the two people were me. That didn't enter
my mind.

Okay, because a lot of people still keep on praising God and are not bitter even though they are not dressing UPC and saying UPC doctrine and standards is the only right way to live.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

I sacrificed my children on the altar of seeing things through and I would never do it again. I thought I had to. I thought I was doing "God's will". I thought I was doing the right thing. My children are pretty well turned out in the long run. Not perfect, but pretty well. I would never, ever allow this again though, if I had to do it over. I would realize that my FIRST job in life is to PROTECT my children and not fancy myself as fighting some super-spiritual battle like I thought I was. I was pretty self-deluded. And deluded other-wise. But, thankfully I have been able to apologize to my children and move on rather than them moving on without me and me telling them they are going to hell because they aren't the fools I was.

You woudn't allow it again? What did God tell you to do?

[RandyWayne]

After over two hours of prayer, we have finally felt that God is leading us to eat lunch at Famous Daves this afternoon....

Now, hopefully it doesn't take another two hours for Him to guide us in the route that we should take to get there.....

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You woudn't allow it again? What did God tell you to do?

I believe that God honored my walk and simply worked within the framework that I was taught and understood. He directed me within that framework because he knew I was listening to the teachings of men more than the teachings of God. My mind is different now and I believe I would have received (and would have been willing to receive) different directives that would have been more godly had the hindrances of doctrines of men been removed.