Mooney Guns for "Secret" Meeting in Detroit? - Page 4

rgcraig · #31 07-08-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Remember that Mooney is using this as a fear technique to keep the people of Mississippi scared of anything new. This is par for the course around here. By talking about secret meetings and possible false doctrine and snakes and whatnot you get all the little old ladies in Mississippi all fired up and headed back to their churches to enforce the doctrine on the young folks and make sure the pastor keeps the church in line.

I have a friend who is church of God (believe me the church of God has their own share of Pentecostal craziness going on) who went to one of the night services during the Mississippi youth camp and was completely horrified. From his descriptions they basically scared the little kids to death with talk of backsliding and sin and drugs and body tattoos and how one little sin could be all it takes to send you to hell (we are talking 8 year olds) till they all went screaming down to the altar to get the Holy Ghost. He said folks were everywhere praying with little kids trying to get them to speak in tongues and of course they were crying with all their heart because they wanted to be saved. I don't know if other state's youth camps are like this but I went to youth camp when I was a kid and it was about the same.

You hate to think that, but at times that's what it appears to be.

Papabear · #32 07-08-2009, 08:50 AM

Just a few points, I don't make a habit of posting on AFF.

PM is not without knowing what happened or what was said or who was there. He knows because he has spoken to those there and understands the tenor of some at this meeting.

1. There has been no released agenda, no released CD's, DVD's, ect. Why would you not record a meeting like this? Why the prolonged secrecy... and now that it is causing such issues, why not release it to set any feelings at ease?

2. The issue at hand is some are not denying Acts 2:38, but doubt it's neccessity.

3. All of them gathered are not beneficiaries of Nepotism... (I am not against it, I have three sons ) however when fathers pass churches to sons & inlaws who have a history of questionable character, ethics and/or doctrinal stability. It is a significant percentage... and then add that to men who pastor churches they are just one of dozens in the history of the church, a church whose history has been one of holiness and Apostolic doctrine... In both cases, these men should go prove the validity of the "NEW revelation" rather than using the platform .. foundation of another and take it away.

4. This either or approach to truth... my truth, your truth ... some truth is enough to qualify as truth is error.

5. PM was not airing dirty laundry.. he was stating clearly the direction and decision he has made. He was, "Intentionally Confrontational". He was contending for the faith once delivered. I believe our movement needs to come to grips with who we are, what we believe and recognize it. Those who are otherwise minded need to go join a Church for the Nations or some easy charismatic group and see the incredible church growth and revival they promise. They will be disappointed and find the cost was not worth the effort.... and the end product is bitterness and disappointment as demonstrated in many corners of used to be apostolic.

rgcraig · #33 07-08-2009, 08:53 AM

Papabear,

How do you reconcile where you are today from where things were when UPC merged?

Don't all things evolve? Could this direction just be a return back to how things were before?

Why doesn't anyone want to talk about that?

MissBrattified · #34 07-08-2009, 08:57 AM

I agree with Bro. Mooney; the secretive meetings and gathering of people to discuss what "shall be done" about current issues is nonsense.

Let them line up in front of the general board and picket and expound and plead and publicly declare a preaching strike or whatEVER--but there is no need to be secretive unless you are trying to draw people away from the organization or work some mischief behind the backs of others.

MOST of the time, what is done in secret needs to be hidden for a reason. I certainly don't teach my children to be secretive or to conceal their thoughts, words and actions. So adults even moreso need to learn to be bold and express themselves forthrightly and honestly, without subterfuge.

I did NOT appreciate how the WPF handled their mess, and I don't appreciate anyone else who exercises dishonest tactics.

Now. That said. I have no idea what the secret meeting in Detroit was about, whether it had anything to do with the organization or not, and whether "secret" is the correct term for the event. "Exclusive" is not the same thing as "secret." But, it obviously wasn't public. I have to be a little suspicious of people who exclude anyone or any group who can offer dissension or an opposing viewpoint.

I hope the men who organized the meeting were prayerful and not divisive in any way. I hope they didn't negatively discuss their elders in any way. I hope they didn't deride or mock older men of God or their doctrines. I hope they were exceedingly respectful in their discussions or planning or whatever it was they were gathered to do. ...because to do otherwise would be to alienate God from the entire process, no matter what the core motive might be.

MissBrattified · #35 07-08-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Remember that Mooney is using this as a fear technique to keep the people of Mississippi scared of anything new. This is par for the course around here. By talking about secret meetings and possible false doctrine and snakes and whatnot you get all the little old ladies in Mississippi all fired up and headed back to their churches to enforce the doctrine on the young folks and make sure the pastor keeps the church in line.

I seriously doubt that was Bro. Mooney's intent. And there is a time for elders to rebuke the saints and fellow ministers collectively. Camp meeting is the perfect time for such an action, if needed, because many of the saints are gathered in one place.

Quote:

I have a friend who is church of God (believe me the church of God has their own share of Pentecostal craziness going on) who went to one of the night services during the Mississippi youth camp and was completely horrified. From his descriptions they basically scared the little kids to death with talk of backsliding and sin and drugs and body tattoos and how one little sin could be all it takes to send you to hell (we are talking 8 year olds) till they all went screaming down to the altar to get the Holy Ghost. He said folks were everywhere praying with little kids trying to get them to speak in tongues and of course they were crying with all their heart because they wanted to be saved. I don't know if other state's youth camps are like this but I went to youth camp when I was a kid and it was about the same.

I haven't been to Mississippi camp, but I have absolutely NO problem with fire and brimstone preaching.

One of my all time favorites: Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God (Jonathon Edwards)

*AQuietPlace* · #36 07-08-2009, 09:12 AM

Sometimes it makes sense for like-minded men to get together and discuss things before they make a public move. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that it would be foolish not to. If you want to bring an opposing viewpoint to the table, it only makes sense to have your viewpoints and thoughts organized first.

MissBrattified · #37 07-08-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Sometimes it makes sense for like-minded men to get together and discuss things before they make a public move. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that it would be foolish not to. If you want to bring an opposing viewpoint to the table, it only makes sense to have your viewpoints and thoughts organized first.

Why? Your own personal viewpoints--fine. But why collude with others first? Men need to stand on their own two feet, and if there are others who are like minded, why don't they stand up publicly with a backbone and support those who are already speaking out?

What is (was) being planned or "organized" that can't be done publicly? Why not open the doors to anyone?

rgcraig · #38 07-08-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Sometimes it makes sense for like-minded men to get together and discuss things before they make a public move. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that it would be foolish not to. If you want to bring an opposing viewpoint to the table, it only makes sense to have your viewpoints and thoughts organized first.

I agree and I believe this to be exactly what happened. Nothing secret about it or we wouldn't all know about it.

The only exclusivity was the "like-mindedness" - - there's no coup d'état going on.

deltaguitar · #39 07-08-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I seriously doubt that was Bro. Mooney's intent. And there is a time for elders to rebuke the saints and fellow ministers collectively. Camp meeting is the perfect time for such an action, if needed, because many of the saints are gathered in one place.

I haven't been to Mississippi camp, but I have absolutely NO problem with fire and brimstone preaching.

One of my all time favorites: Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God (Jonathon Edwards)

I will listen to the message and see if that is his intent. My initial reaction is that it was because of past experiences.

The content of these messages was not about a sinful man needing a merciful God but about US keeping ourselves in right standing with God and an emphasis on the getting the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Something you will not find in Jonathan Edward's messages. Preaching fire and brimstone has to include grace or all you end up with is a bunch of scared folks or folks hating God.

EA · #40 07-08-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Why? Your own personal viewpoints--fine. But why collude with others first? Men need to stand on their own two feet, and if there are others who are like minded, why don't they stand up publicly with a backbone and support those who are already speaking out?

What is (was) being planned or "organized" that can't be done publicly? Why not open the doors to anyone?

MissB,

Your principles are great, and I cannot stand hidden agendas.

I didn't like it with the WPF, and I don't like it with this group.

However, I think you're missing the way things really work.

Since when is it a crime to hold a private meeting?

Should we create a new bylaw to prohibit private assembly without prior consent from the UPCI? To me, this is about control. Some men want to control the flow of information within the org, and want access to private meetings in order to manage the conversations and agenda.

That is borg theology. That is anti-Bible. That is wrong.

You say that these guys should push an agenda publicly?

How?

They are already being railroaded, demonized and castigated before they speak one word publicly. Can you imagine what would happen if they spewed their entire agenda?

Listen carefully, Sis.

Any movement that supresses critical thinking, prohibits private assembly and squelches inspection is in grave danger of becoming monolithic, cultic and irrelevant.