Mooney Guns for "Secret" Meeting in Detroit?

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by jaamez

Right... but is it really false doctrine? Is this really about essentials or technicalities? What is even being debated? Does anybody even know for sure? Or is this all just hyperbole?

The irony is that this is the debate in its entirety. Some are insisting on matters as essentials, and others insist they are nonessentials. Not all of this is standards (much of it is), but some of it even pertains to soteriology, namely Acts 2:38 doctrine, which is most assuredly doctrinal.

No, I have no idea what was discussed at the meeting. They didn't invite me

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

My point being, with matters of doctrine, inflammatory words and confrontation are expected.

There was no confrontation. This was not an example of Mooney confronting those he disagreed with or accused of being false prophets. There was no opportunity for the accused to confront their accusers or respond to Mooney's railings. This is not a confrontation at all. It's political posturing, gossipping, fear-mongering and propaganda.

It's setting the stage for a kangaroo court trial and subsequent public lynching in order to make example of anyone who would do the same. I've seen it done MANY times over the years - notably over the 1992 affirmation statement.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

The irony is that this is the debate in its entirety. Some are insisting on matters as essentials, and others insist they are nonessentials. Not all of this is standards (much of it is), but some of it even pertains to soteriology, namely Acts 2:38 doctrine, which is most assuredly doctrinal.

No, I have no idea what was discussed at the meeting. They didn't invite me

Has anyone thought about contacting those who were rumored to be involved about obtaining information or meeting minutes...?

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by jaamez

There was no confrontation. This was not an example of Mooney confronting those he disagreed with or accused of being false prophets. There was no opportunity for the accused to confront their accusers or respond to Mooney's railings. This is not a confrontation at all. It's political posturing, gossipping, fear-mongering and propaganda.

It's setting the stage for a kangaroo court trial and subsequent public lynching in order to make example of anyone who would do the same. I've seen it done MANY times over the years - notably over the 1992 affirmation statement.

Paul didn't invite his antagonists (in his letters) to come defend themselves. He told the churches to kick them out. Nothing has moved this particular situation to that point, so instead, he was making it clear of his disapproval for so-called secret meetings -- and avoided name-branding or specifics to make that clear. If, he in fact said "false prophets", I think there needs to be more supportive evidence for saying such things in a public setting.

Was it the wisest thing to do? I don't know, the survey is out. But, he most definitely had every right to do it.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Justin

Has anyone thought about contacting those who were rumored to be involved about obtaining information or meeting minutes...?

No. Are you volunteering?

[James Griffin]

Posted on another thread but certainly on point for this one.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=24979


Recently there has been genuine fear and resulting backlash among some of the leadership elite in the UPCI.

Young ministers especially (of which there are so precious few left) are no longer satisfied with the two pat answers given when they have questions about “standards’ and procedures. Namely:

1 Because I said so.
2 Because that’s the way we have always done it.

IF certain “standards” are heaven or hell issues then why are they not deemed as such in “The Manual”?

Isn’t that a legitimate question?

The truth is in times past such ministers did simply leave the organization.

This time it is different. One thing that out of touch leaders have failed to note is that there has been a MAJOR shift of the center within the UPCI over the past decade or so, and this time there are men who refuse to be driven off from the organization they love and have spent their life working within.

And as has been pointed out in other threads and other forums the lament from certain leaders is “why oh why don’t they just go away like all the others did?”

The simple answer is they are actually aligned with the current mainstream of the UPCI, and if they hang around they WILL eventually be elected to offices were they WILL represent the true feelings and principles of the rank and file.

This scares certain factions who are used to saying “boo” and watching men scatter.

That is the Great Fear, it is not working this time.

There is nothing subversive going on.

Good men, spiritual men, who believe that Acts 2:38 is the only correct response to the gospel are coming together. Not to question the Bible but to discuss mindless dicta from out of touch leaders, and how to deal with it in a godly manner.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Posted on another thread but certainly on point for this one.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=24979


Recently there has been genuine fear and resulting backlash among some of the leadership elite in the UPCI.

Young ministers especially (of which there are so precious few left) are no longer satisfied with the two pat answers given when they have questions about “standards’ and procedures. Namely:

1 Because I said so.
2 Because that’s the way we have always done it.

IF certain “standards” are heaven or hell issues then why are they not deemed as such in “The Manual”?

Isn’t that a legitimate question?

The truth is in times past such ministers did simply leave the organization.

This time it is different. One thing that out of touch leaders have failed to note is that there has been a MAJOR shift of the center within the UPCI over the past decade or so, and this time there are men who refuse to be driven off from the organization they love and have spent their life working within.

And as has been pointed out in other threads and other forums the lament from certain leaders is “why oh why don’t they just go away like all the others did?”

The simple answer is they are actually aligned with the current mainstream of the UPCI, and if they hang around they WILL eventually be elected to offices were they WILL represent the true feelings and principles of the rank and file.

This scares certain factions who are used to saying “boo” and watching men scatter.

That is the Great Fear, it is not working this time.

There is nothing subversive going on.

Good men, spiritual men, who believe that Acts 2:38 is the only correct response to the gospel are coming together. Not to question the Bible but to discuss mindless dicta from out of touch leaders, and how to deal with it in a godly manner.

[Ron]

Have not read all of this thread but it is clear Bro Mooney's message is being missed by most!

I echo Pappa Bears feelings, God has been dealing with me about the same issue!

Everyone should hear it!

[Encryptus]

????

It looked pretty much on point to me. But I am glad he qualified as to "certain" leaders, I think the ones here in the South Texas District are doing a great job.

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by Ron

Have not read all of this thread but it is clear Bro Mooney's message is being missed by most!

I echo Pappa Bears feelings, God has been dealing with me about the same issue!

Everyone should hear it!

Unfortunately Ron, Scott is way too broadbrush. A lot of the ones I personally know who were there (and are second or third generation) have gone out and started new assemblies on their own. It seems like a whole lot of attempts to grasp at straws to discredit these guys. Sad really.