Con-to-Lib "Hybrid" Churches: Let's be Honest

[*AQuietPlace*]

What's your definition Aquila?

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

I have found this to be true, as well. When I asked the Lord to take away from my heart the desires of this world, and place within it His desires, I found I began to live more conservatively by the leading of the Holy Ghost.

I also began to live more conservatively... but it is in more areas of entertainment than dress... I've always believed in modesty... so not an issue...but I have a desire to please him in all things...from my heart... not a list of rules.

[Sister Alvear]

The first church men and women wore robes...men had beards...ha....love you folks.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree, doing something that might cause someone to stumble into "sin" is presenting a stumbling block. But again... what is "sin"? You said,



I see a glaring problem with your answer as to what sin is. Because to "miss the mark" a mark must be definately set. What is the "mark" we are aiming to hit? For example, a young girl sees her older friend wearing pajama pants. Will this cause her to begin questioning why she can't wear regular pants? What if she sees her older sister wearing pants when out and about. Will this cause her to begin questioning why she shouldn't wear pants? Maybe. But is that being a "stumbling block"? I mean, is wearing pants a "sin"? If so, where does the Bible say so? My point is, God has set a sure mark for defining what is sin and what isn't. It isn't abritrary, based on a pastor or brother's opinion. Some say facial hair is a "sin". Really? So if I wear a five o'clock shadow... is that presenting a stumbling block? Where is that in Scripture?

My point is - what is "sin"? Define it definately. God has.

Aquila, I don't think sin is black and white. We can ignore God's promptings in our personal life, and begin to resist and disobey Him, and it still not be a uniform law for mankind. (James 4:17)

Circumcision wasn't sin, eating pork wasn't a sin --- but this was the issues Paul had to deal with when he talked about considering your brother. This has to mean something to us today. How do you interpret it?

I'm not talking about individual-by-individual, but I'm referring to it in the context of this thread: of larger, seasoned churches suddenly changing. In the individual context, I will be as cognizant as I can without offending my brother. Does that mean I keep my face smooth at all times? No. It's not written down, it's just an attitude. And it's not about seeing the other brother weaker than I, it's about understanding our mutual human condition, and fragileness. If we love our brother, our personal liberty won't be as important as our concern with their harm. How we dice that up... I'll keep it on this level. Slow is the way to go. Then again, like I previously posted, someone will force your hand, and what will you say? God give grace to our minister's lips. Let us not turn from rules and questionable doctrines into free-spirited asses that have no yoke... but let us realize the severe importance of God's soft and easy yoke, turning when we feel his tender nudge.

[GrowingPains]

Again, point-being, many are afraid to follow their inclinations to change because of the devastation of some of the churches that have taken that step. Maybe in 10 years, these churches will survive. I think churches that decide to change on things should seriously meet with others and talk about the best way to do that.

[Sherri]

We took an old traditional UPC church in 1984 in a small town that had been there for over 50 years. Before we ever went, my husband told the board that he would not preach standards and he would not be a "spiritual cop". If that's what they wanted, they needed to look elsewhere. He has NEVER preached standards and wasn't going to start, but he does preach principles of the Word. They wanted us anyway.

As the church grew, the newer people came in and learned to be good Christians, but he never enforced the legalism on them. The church grew from 35 to about 650 before we left there to move to Jackson. We kept all the older saints except one, and she didn't leave over standards. Some of those older ladies still have the "Pentecostal" look, and I wouldn't change them for anything. It was a tremendously successful experience, but we never got up and made proclamations; it was just a slow change, and we taught the older ones to love the new ones coming in, even if they were different.

When we started the new work in Jackson in 2001, we just went in preaching and teaching as we always had, and these people (by and large) have never heard of UPC. It's a great solid church of sold-out fanatic people who strive to serve God with all their hearts. We had 902 Sunday and are in another building program.

So, Growing Pains, I hope we can qualify as one of your success stories, by the grace of God.

[missourimary]

I'm not sure all of them actively seek the changes that are made. And every church is different.

I am watching a church begin to change now. They don't know they are changing and would be angry if I suggested they were, but they are, none the less.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We took an old traditional UPC church in 1984 in a small town that had been there for over 50 years. Before we ever went, my husband told the board that he would not preach standards and he would not be a "spiritual cop". If that's what they wanted, they needed to look elsewhere. He has NEVER preached standards and wasn't going to start, but he does preach principles of the Word. They wanted us anyway.

As the church grew, the newer people came in and learned to be good Christians, but he never enforced the legalism on them. The church grew from 35 to about 650 before we left there to move to Jackson. We kept all the older saints except one, and she didn't leave over standards. Some of those older ladies still have the "Pentecostal" look, and I wouldn't change them for anything. It was a tremendously successful experience, but we never got up and made proclamations; it was just a slow change, and we taught the older ones to love the new ones coming in, even if they were different.

When we started the new work in Jackson in 2001, we just went in preaching and teaching as we always had, and these people (by and large) have never heard of UPC. It's a great solid church of sold-out fanatic people who strive to serve God with all their hearts. We had 902 Sunday and are in another building program.

So, Growing Pains, I hope we can qualify as one of your success stories, by the grace of God.

That certainly qualifies as a success story.
You church planted in Jackson in 2001? In 8 years you have grown that much? The church is hungry for discipleship? Kudos to you! I think you'd be a person to pick on a panel. I'm sure there are some stories regarding that transition with the older church.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

That certainly qualifies as a success story.
You church planted in Jackson in 2001? In 8 years you have grown that much? The church is hungry for discipleship? Kudos to you! I think you'd be a person to pick on a panel. I'm sure there are some stories regarding that transition with the older church.

God has been good to us. The transition we went through in the first church was completely smooth; I can't explain it except it was a divine move of God. His hand was definitely on that congregation. I have heard horror stories from friends, but we were just blessed through the whole thing.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Sherri

God has been good to us. The transition we went through in the first church was completely smooth; I can't explain it except it was a divine move of God. His hand was definitely on that congregation. I have heard horror stories from friends, but we were just blessed through the whole thing.

Divine indeed! In your experience with others, what would you say, as a percentage, has been the case with churches in this situation.

I would love to hear your story sometime.