Serious Question

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

What if the person is the pastor or at least someone in ministry? I think that's what PP is asking. How do you handle that?

Yes, and what if they continue in the sin thinking it is normal?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Would you feel comfortable knowing that a leader (not necessarily a preacher) in your church was struggling with his/her eye gate (internet sites or mags) and yet still in a place of heavy use in the church?

What if this man or woman had struggled for a while, perhaps even giving in to the temptation, asking forgiveness, only to return to the temptation, and still wanted to teach others or be used in a leadership role?

How does the church deal with this issue?

I agree with Margie and MOW!

However, I believe PP's question presents a whole different question/issue.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Yes, and what if they continue in the sin thinking it is normal?

As said before... this is a dangerous individual. They have moved beyond self righteousness to the even more dangerous arena of self justification! Self righteousness is easily exposed and dealt with by coming into the presence of Him who is truly holy! Self justification is not nearly so easily exposed or dealt with because the justifier is always present in the one who is sinning yet past feeling guilt for their sin!

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I am very cautious not to intrude into the "bedroom" of saints. I don't even talk about "specifics" neither do I believe that I have to. I deal with principles. However, I have found that some men whose wives (I'm trying to be careful here) are not "responsive" to their "advances" will be more prone to this type of behavior. The serious problem (other than them viewing the sinful material) is expecting their spouse to behave like what they are viewing. The marriage goes downhill quick from there.

If their spouse won't go down that "road," they may even enter an illicit affair. So this whole thing is a bad deal all the way around. I personally don't think couples should be involved in this stuff at all. I don't buy the excuse that it spices up the relationship.

Victoria's Secret can do that and there are no "actors" who have no business being involved in the relationship by way of viewing. (I'm trying to be careful here and deal with principles....this is a difficult topic)

It's difficult - yes.

I asked the question in the hairspray thread about whether or not and to what extent the sinful world we live in and all the emphasis on sex and lust and physical appearance has come to affect what is supposed to be holy, God ordained and good!

I didn't get much of an answer there and I think people felt I was just pouring cold water ... lol ... but I think it's an important question.

Something that has been God ordained, and is supposed to be sacred, and wonderful and good and satisfying and beautiful and to be explored and enjoyed between two people who've been joined together in God's sight and with His approval has become dirty, sin smeared and VERY messed up in many many cases because of the world's influence and unrealistic expectations presented in the images being flaunted in mens and womens faces and psyches today in the media.

Having been here myself, I feel confident to respond.
Someone who is involved in pornography has no business being in any leadership position.
Pornography is not only a sin against the soul, it is also a sin against the flesh and leaves its residue on everything the individual touches.
For that person to be in ministry, all that they touch will eventually feel the ruin of that life.
Sin is still sin.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Margies3

I may be very naive, but I'm sitting here thinking that if a pastor finds out from a person that they are having a problem with porn, wouldn't it seem that the person is crying out for help?

I would assume that if a person doesn't want someone interfering with their addiction while at the same time knowing what the church teaches regarding porn, they would do all in their power to keep things a secret. Correct???

In that case, my feeling would be that if someone is asking for help, the cruelest (and least wise) thing a person could do would be to bring more attention to the problem by sitting someone down or disciplining in any way. Why discipline? If the person is asking for help, then God has already done the disciplining. At least that would be my view of how this works.

But then I'm VERY glad that I am not a pastor and don't have to deal with things like this. God bless and guide those of you who are in that position is my prayer!

Yep -- my feelings too.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by NobodyImportant

Having been here myself, I feel confident to respond.
Someone who is involved in pornography has no business being in any leadership position.
Pornography is not only a sin against the soul, it is also a sin against the flesh and leaves its residue on everything the individual touches.
For that person to be in ministry, all that they touch will eventually feel the ruin of that life.
Sin is still sin.

I think we've established that. So how do you handle someone that's involved in it and still in the ministry?

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I am very cautious not to intrude into the "bedroom" of saints. I don't even talk about "specifics" neither do I believe that I have to. I deal with principles. However, I have found that some men whose wives (I'm trying to be careful here) are not "responsive" to their "advances" will be more prone to this type of behavior. The serious problem (other than them viewing the sinful material) is expecting their spouse to behave like what they are viewing. The marriage goes downhill quick from there.

If their spouse won't go down that "road," they may even enter an illicit affair. So this whole thing is a bad deal all the way around. I personally don't think couples should be involved in this stuff at all. I don't buy the excuse that it spices up the relationship.

Victoria's Secret can do that and there are no "actors" who have no business being involved in the relationship by way of viewing. (I'm trying to be careful here and deal with principles....this is a difficult topic)

MOW,
The bolded part I do not believe as fact...I contend that men and women are responsible for there behaviors and just because one spouse does not want or need sex as often as the other does not give them the license to view pornography or to have an affair.

I do agree that everything in our culture is geared toward sensuality and sexuality, and for this reason we as Christians should be even more careful of what we put before our eyes. There is no time that viewing pornography is right...even if a married couple do it together.

Pornography, as has been stated, sets a person up for unrealistic expectations in the bedroom and disappointment will most assuredly happen...because what they view is not real.

Under no circumsatnces should a sinner be forced to publically confess their sin...but when it becomes knowledge to the Pastor this person should be sat down and dealt with PRIVATELY...as I referred to in a previous post.

Pedophilia is primarily a male problem...over 90% although there are some women who do fall into the category. Pornography is primarily a male problem but much more women are participating.

I would also have to agree that women today are much more aggressive and seek out sexual partners, but I am not sure that they are predators...predators are primarily men as they have more power and control over women and children than women do. Women lack the status and the opportunity for such.

Blessings, Rhoni

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I think we've established that. So how do you handle someone that's involved in it and still in the ministry?

I stepped out of leadership while dealing with this issue. I talked to my then pastor about this and told him that I felt that I should not be in any type of ministerial position until this came under submission.
When this becomes known of the individual, then it must be addressed then. It is truly up to the discretion of the pastor, but my thoughts are as follows:
1) They should voluntarily step down until this is resolved in their lives.
2) They should not be exposed for shame, but if exposed should be welcomed to the church for healing and deliverance.
3) They need to become involved in every activity outside of leadership to re-establish things that have probably been torn down.
4) If married, their spouse needs to be informed since there will be a lot of questions arising in regards to fidelity.

There is much more that could be done, but the main thing is to not disfellowship them since if they are desiring of deliverance, how can that happen if they are not allowed to come to church?
Further, if we cannot reach them in love, how can we protect another who may fall prey to the same temptation? Who will protect us should it be our own selves?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Felicity

It's difficult - yes.

I asked the question in the hairspray thread about whether or not and to what extent the sinful world we live in and all the emphasis on sex and lust and physical appearance has come to affect what is supposed to be holy, God ordained and good!

I didn't get much of an answer there and I think people felt I was just pouring cold water ... lol ... but I think it's an important question.

Something that has been God ordained, and is supposed to be sacred, and wonderful and good and satisfying and beautiful and to be explored and enjoyed between two people who've been joined together in God's sight and with His approval has become dirty, sin smeared and VERY messed up in many many cases because of the world's influence and unrealistic expectations presented in the images being flaunted in mens and womens faces and psyches today in the media.

I believe I agreed with you on the hairspray thread and I will again here!

I was talking to someone this weekend that was totally appalled that a minister in her church was going to see a "R" rated movie that was known to have nudity in it and didn't have a problem at all with going to see it.

See asked me, how can someone go see that movie on Saturday and then lead worship on Sunday.

How can they?