1. The good professor was not known very well by his neighbors. Maybe he wasn't very neighborly, which is certainly not a crime.
2. If I had to kick the door in at my house, and a neighbor witnessed what was going on and didn't recognize me........I would WANT them to call the police! That would show that a neighbor cares that something unusual is happening at my house! We call it neighborhood watch in my area!
3. I would not be offended if a police officer of ANY race asked for proof of identity. That is a police officer doing their job! A soft answer turns away wrath. I believe the good professor found an opportunity to get exposure.
I was talking with someone today at lunch and it was brought up about certain people that you have to parse your words with, because they are LOOKING to find something offensive. It appears that the good professor fits into this category. I guess the police officers need training on how to walk on egg shells around certain personalities so they don't hurt their feelings.
4. I believe that neither the police or the good professor were at their best behavior in this incident! Police don't take very well to threats! (neither do most people!)
5. The picture seems to show calm officers and an outraged professor! Is he yelling at the black officer?
I guess my remarks make me a racist! Heaven help us all!
Mr. Steinway, I'm not sure why you would end your post with "I guess my remarks make me a racist! Heaven help us all". I don't think anyone was going to accuse you of that based on the content of your post. I would not even interject that into the conversation.
Either way, I do agree that neither side probably handled things in the best way possible. My problem is that I don't think we can afford to allow some police the license to "not be on their best behavior". They are basically the ultimate authority when they arrive in some situations and some abuse that. I don't think we can hold them to the same standard as the average citizen when they are in their official capacity.
However, I am not sure how pleasant my picture would be if I were being led out of my own house in my own neighborhood in handcuffs by a squad of officers after coming home from a long trip and not doing anything illegal. (how's that for a run-on )
What is also pretty amusing to me in my conversations with people is how some of the same people who were up in arms about perceived police abuse of power in the airport case with that activist are apparently fine with this.
In the airport case you had a man in a public place that is of very vital and specific security concern and has been proven to be able to be the launching pad of attacks that can cripple the entire country.
In this case you have a man being accosted in his house. I just don't see where in a case when the police were mistaken, it should end in arrest inside someone's home...unless the person maybe physically attacked the police.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I think the President made uncalled for remarks. But I think he thought he was sticking up for his friend.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
The good scholar saw an opportunity for a statement and $$$ ...
The President just made a stupid comment and, from current news, is too arrogant to admit he stepped over the line with his dumb comments against the officer.
a. President Obama: In my opinion, President Obama is going to have to get better at recognizing that he no longer has the latitude to simply speak as a normal person or a friend. His every word carries a significance that is staggeringly complex.
b. Race: I think it is very possible (obviously not provable) that race did play a role in the initial call when the professor was trying to get into his own front door. It also possibly played into the way the police initially approached the professor and in how they responded to him being obviously upset and disrespectful to them.
c. The Professor: I don't have any doubt that he became upset. He probably behaved innappropriately, he probably was not respectful to the officers. The officer said he arrested him because he bacame loud and tumultuous.
d. The Arrest: I just don't think that even being loud and tumultuous in your own house (assuming its true) is reason enough in this case to handcuff and arrest. That is scary to me. I think that cooler heads should have recognized that the officers were mistaken, and had accosted a frustrated, innocent man who in addition to just returning home was trying to arrange for the repair of his door (I would be aggravated whether the police showed up or not). At that point they should have even been willing to endure a tongue-lashing, apologize and leave.
The things that I have read indicate that he showed both his license and his Harvard ID. At that point the cops should have known that they were mistaken and were harrassing an innocent man. I've seen good cops endure tongue-lashings from people who were not even as innocent. I've also seen some who over-estimate their position.
They knew that their call was not from someone who was intimately acquainted with what was happening. If someone had called and said "there's somebody on my porch trying to break into my house" it would be different.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
a. President Obama: In my opinion, President Obama is going to have to get better at recognizing that he no longer has the latitude to simply speak as a normal person or a friend. His every word carries a significance that is staggeringly complex.
b. Race: I think it is very possible (obviously not provable) that race did play a role in the initial call when the professor was trying to get into his own front door. It also possibly played into the way the police initially approached the professor and in how they responded to him being obviously upset and disrespectful to them.
c. The Professor: I don't have any doubt that he became upset. He probably behaved innappropriately, he probably was not respectful to the officers. The officer said he arrested him because he bacame loud and tumultuous.
d. The Arrest: I just don't think that even being loud and tumultuous in your own house (assuming its true) is reason enough in this case to handcuff and arrest. That is scary to me. I think that cooler heads should have recognized that the officers were mistaken, and had accosted a frustrated, innocent man who in addition to just returning home was trying to arrange for the repair of his door (I would be aggravated whether the police showed up or not). At that point they should have even been willing to endure a tongue-lashing, apologize and leave.
The things that I have read indicate that he showed both his license and his Harvard ID. At that point the cops should have known that they were mistaken and were harrassing an innocent man. I've seen good cops endure tongue-lashings from people who were not even as innocent. I've also seen some who over-estimate their position.
They knew that their call was not from someone who was intimately acquainted with what was happening. If someone had called and said "there's somebody on my porch trying to break into my house" it would be different.
I don't think we can say they were harrassing him.
Other possible scenerios. He refused to prove who he was at first, being irate that cops would come and question him about trying to break into his own home.
He did show them his ID and the cops would have just left it at that but the man became abusive
BTW Disorderly conduct
Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when people are behaving in a disruptive manner to themselves or others, but present no serious public danger. Disorderly conduct is typically classified as a misdemeanor.
Here is another question. IF it had been a BLACK cop would the charge of racism even been brought up? What if all the cops present were black and hispanics?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Here is another question. IF it had been a BLACK cop would the charge of racism even been brought up? What if all the cops present were black and hispanics?
For me it is not so much about the racism as it is the overall abuse of power. If you're going to go into somebody's house who has not committed a crime, and bring them out in handcuffs, there better be a compelling reason. And "he wasn't very nice to me" just doesn't cut it.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
For me it is not so much about the racism as it is the overall abuse of power. If you're going to go into somebody's house who has not committed a crime, and bring them out in handcuffs, there better be a compelling reason. And "he wasn't very nice to me" just doesn't cut it.
We weren't there though.
They DO have a right to go into the house if they have reasonable cause....reasonable cause: House being broken into. They don't know before getting there it was a false alarm. All they know is the got a report of a break in.
They don't know there was no crime commited.
They apparently arrested the man for disorderly conduct...
Here is what was reported...
Police say Gates flew into a verbal rage when officers asked him for identification while investigating a report of a break-in.
Here is the definition of disorderly conduct in Mass
A disorderly person is defined as one who:
with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or
recklessly creates a risk thereof
engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or
creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.
Police report of one of the officers on the scene
A police report of the incident written by Officer Carlos Figueroa, who responded to the call with Crowley, says Crowley was already in the house when he walked in. The report says Crowley had asked Gates for some identification and Gates shouted that he would not give any information and called the sergeant a racist.
According to the report, Gates then yelled, "This is what happens to black men in America." When Crowley tried to calm him down, Gates shouted, "You don't know who you're messing with."
The report continues that the shouting went on after Gates and the officers walked out onto the front porch. When Gates allegedly wouldn't cooperate or calm down, Crowley arrested him.
From the arresting officer
Crowley told the radio station that he asked Gates to step outside because he didn't know who Gates was, and he was alone and didn't know if his safety was compromised.
"I had no other motive than to ensure my safety, or he could've been the homeowner who was unaware that there were people in his house unauthorized. I just didn't know," Crowley said.
Now from Gates:
On TheRoot.com, a Web site Gates oversees, the professor wrote that he is shocked by the incident.
"I can't believe that an individual policeman on the Cambridge police force would treat any African-American male this way, and I am astonished that this happened to me; and more importantly I'm astonished that it could happen to any citizen of the United States, no matter what their race," Gates wrote.
Now given what this man just said where he assumes this was done BECAUSE he is black...I can perhaps begin to believe that he was infact shouting stuff about these cops being racists...merely because they were there to investigate a break in.
Now I still want to remain objective and see all the evidence when all is said and done, but Gates seems to have just betrayed himself.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Here is another question. IF it had been a BLACK cop would the charge of racism even been brought up? What if all the cops present were black and hispanics?
Not likely. This is looking more and more like what it first appeared to be - reverse discrimination and racism at it's worst, with the United States President as the spokesman.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I don't think we can say they were harrassing him.
Other possible scenerios. He refused to prove who he was at first, being irate that cops would come and question him about trying to break into his own home.
He did show them his ID and the cops would have just left it at that but the man became abusive
BTW Disorderly conduct
Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when people are behaving in a disruptive manner to themselves or others, but present no serious public danger. Disorderly conduct is typically classified as a misdemeanor.
I know that there are plenty of possible scenarios and I do look forward to finding out more. I'm just saying that if he did indeed demosntrate that he was the homeowner, I don't see why he would be arrested even if he wasn't polite.
Given the nature of the call, I don't see how the police would even approach it as a hard and fast "crime in progress" call. Now if the alarm was going off, that's a different story. If someone was saying "somebody is breaking into my house, that's a different story. If someone was saying "I know the homeowner and this is definitely not the homeowner", that's a different story. At the most, all that was justified here was a knock on the door and a courtesy check. I don't see why the cops were even in the house to begin with.
As far as disorderly conduct, I think the key phrase is "behaving in a disruptive manner". There is nothing to indicate that he was behaving in a disruptive manner before the officers arrived, and nothing to suggest that he would be a threat to anyone after they left.
Unless he physically accosted them, I think cooler heads should have apologized and defused the situation.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
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Hybrid Mode
