a. President Obama: In my opinion, President Obama is going to have to get better at recognizing that he no longer has the latitude to simply speak as a normal person or a friend. His every word carries a significance that is staggeringly complex.
b. Race: I think it is very possible (obviously not provable) that race did play a role in the initial call when the professor was trying to get into his own front door. It also possibly played into the way the police initially approached the professor and in how they responded to him being obviously upset and disrespectful to them.
c. The Professor: I don't have any doubt that he became upset. He probably behaved innappropriately, he probably was not respectful to the officers. The officer said he arrested him because he bacame loud and tumultuous.
d. The Arrest: I just don't think that even being loud and tumultuous in your own house (assuming its true) is reason enough in this case to handcuff and arrest. That is scary to me. I think that cooler heads should have recognized that the officers were mistaken, and had accosted a frustrated, innocent man who in addition to just returning home was trying to arrange for the repair of his door (I would be aggravated whether the police showed up or not). At that point they should have even been willing to endure a tongue-lashing, apologize and leave.
The things that I have read indicate that he showed both his license and his Harvard ID. At that point the cops should have known that they were mistaken and were harrassing an innocent man. I've seen good cops endure tongue-lashings from people who were not even as innocent. I've also seen some who over-estimate their position.
They knew that their call was not from someone who was intimately acquainted with what was happening. If someone had called and said "there's somebody on my porch trying to break into my house" it would be different.
I don't think we can say they were harrassing him.
Other possible scenerios. He refused to prove who he was at first, being irate that cops would come and question him about trying to break into his own home.
He did show them his ID and the cops would have just left it at that but the man became abusive
BTW Disorderly conduct
Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when people are behaving in a disruptive manner to themselves or others, but present no serious public danger. Disorderly conduct is typically classified as a misdemeanor.
Here is another question. IF it had been a BLACK cop would the charge of racism even been brought up? What if all the cops present were black and hispanics?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Here is another question. IF it had been a BLACK cop would the charge of racism even been brought up? What if all the cops present were black and hispanics?
For me it is not so much about the racism as it is the overall abuse of power. If you're going to go into somebody's house who has not committed a crime, and bring them out in handcuffs, there better be a compelling reason. And "he wasn't very nice to me" just doesn't cut it.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Here is another question. IF it had been a BLACK cop would the charge of racism even been brought up? What if all the cops present were black and hispanics?
Not likely. This is looking more and more like what it first appeared to be - reverse discrimination and racism at it's worst, with the United States President as the spokesman.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I don't think we can say they were harrassing him.
Other possible scenerios. He refused to prove who he was at first, being irate that cops would come and question him about trying to break into his own home.
He did show them his ID and the cops would have just left it at that but the man became abusive
BTW Disorderly conduct
Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when people are behaving in a disruptive manner to themselves or others, but present no serious public danger. Disorderly conduct is typically classified as a misdemeanor.
I know that there are plenty of possible scenarios and I do look forward to finding out more. I'm just saying that if he did indeed demosntrate that he was the homeowner, I don't see why he would be arrested even if he wasn't polite.
Given the nature of the call, I don't see how the police would even approach it as a hard and fast "crime in progress" call. Now if the alarm was going off, that's a different story. If someone was saying "somebody is breaking into my house, that's a different story. If someone was saying "I know the homeowner and this is definitely not the homeowner", that's a different story. At the most, all that was justified here was a knock on the door and a courtesy check. I don't see why the cops were even in the house to begin with.
As far as disorderly conduct, I think the key phrase is "behaving in a disruptive manner". There is nothing to indicate that he was behaving in a disruptive manner before the officers arrived, and nothing to suggest that he would be a threat to anyone after they left.
Unless he physically accosted them, I think cooler heads should have apologized and defused the situation.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
For me it is not so much about the racism as it is the overall abuse of power. If you're going to go into somebody's house who has not committed a crime, and bring them out in handcuffs, there better be a compelling reason. And "he wasn't very nice to me" just doesn't cut it.
We weren't there though.
They DO have a right to go into the house if they have reasonable cause....reasonable cause: House being broken into. They don't know before getting there it was a false alarm. All they know is the got a report of a break in.
They don't know there was no crime commited.
They apparently arrested the man for disorderly conduct...
Here is what was reported...
Police say Gates flew into a verbal rage when officers asked him for identification while investigating a report of a break-in.
Here is the definition of disorderly conduct in Mass
A disorderly person is defined as one who:
with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or
recklessly creates a risk thereof
engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or
creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.
Police report of one of the officers on the scene
A police report of the incident written by Officer Carlos Figueroa, who responded to the call with Crowley, says Crowley was already in the house when he walked in. The report says Crowley had asked Gates for some identification and Gates shouted that he would not give any information and called the sergeant a racist.
According to the report, Gates then yelled, "This is what happens to black men in America." When Crowley tried to calm him down, Gates shouted, "You don't know who you're messing with."
The report continues that the shouting went on after Gates and the officers walked out onto the front porch. When Gates allegedly wouldn't cooperate or calm down, Crowley arrested him.
From the arresting officer
Crowley told the radio station that he asked Gates to step outside because he didn't know who Gates was, and he was alone and didn't know if his safety was compromised.
"I had no other motive than to ensure my safety, or he could've been the homeowner who was unaware that there were people in his house unauthorized. I just didn't know," Crowley said.
Now from Gates:
On TheRoot.com, a Web site Gates oversees, the professor wrote that he is shocked by the incident.
"I can't believe that an individual policeman on the Cambridge police force would treat any African-American male this way, and I am astonished that this happened to me; and more importantly I'm astonished that it could happen to any citizen of the United States, no matter what their race," Gates wrote.
Now given what this man just said where he assumes this was done BECAUSE he is black...I can perhaps begin to believe that he was infact shouting stuff about these cops being racists...merely because they were there to investigate a break in.
Now I still want to remain objective and see all the evidence when all is said and done, but Gates seems to have just betrayed himself.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I know that there are plenty of possible scenarios and I do look forward to finding out more. I'm just saying that if he did indeed demosntrate that he was the homeowner, I don't see why he would be arrested even if he wasn't polite.
Given the nature of the call, I don't see how the police would even approach it as a hard and fast "crime in progress" call. Now if the alarm was going off, that's a different story. If someone was saying "somebody is breaking into my house, that's a different story. If someone was saying "I know the homeowner and this is definitely not the homeowner", that's a different story. At the most, all that was justified here was a knock on the door and a courtesy check. I don't see why the cops were even in the house to begin with.
As far as disorderly conduct, I think the key phrase is "behaving in a disruptive manner". There is nothing to indicate that he was behaving in a disruptive manner before the officers arrived, and nothing to suggest that he would be a threat to anyone after they left.
Unless he physically accosted them, I think cooler heads should have apologized and defused the situation.
According to the Police report the man was irate over being asked for ID....didn't immediately provide it because he was agitated and that went on for a little while. The disruptive behavior started when he was asked for ID. Read the police report and the words of the cop. They will do that no matter what race you are.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I think the reason I am suspicious, though I want to try to be objective and clearly it's hard is....in this day and age of liberal activist college professors...I can see him honestly shouting to others that this was all about racism...
The news says there was a crowd growing. I guarantee you it does not matter what color you are, if you are yelling in that way and not calming down when police ask you too you will be arrested
I think he really strongly believes he was asked for his ID because he is black.
Here is another question...if a cop in the same situation asked a white home owner for HIS id would that home owner have become irate? Yes he may have...if he continued to be belligerent he might have been arrested too.
However he'd have no excuse to scream about racism...it might be more along the lines of "Im a tax payer, this is against my constitutional rights" etc etc....
Maybe what plays into this is not that the man was black, but that he was a college professor of Racial studies? Maybe a little paranoia perhaps like the white guy thinks the government is coming to take his house and black helicopters are flying overhead?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
According to the Police report the man was irate over being asked for ID....didn't immediately provide it because he was agitated and that went on for a little while. The disruptive behavior started when he was asked for ID. Read the police report and the words of the cop. They will do that no matter what race you are.
Prax, I'm just saying that being irate in your own house should not be an arrestable offense particularly once the police officer realizes that he was actually mistaken. (unless of course you pose a domestic threat to someone else in the house)
I know that there will be conflicting reports about how identification was produced, but everybody agrees that he did identify himself.
I have seen officers yelled at even out in the public, by people who were stopped for speeding, by people who are demonstrating, etc...
I've seen officers called pigs and worse by people who were guilty of a whole lot more than coming home.
At the end of the day, I have yet to read an arrestable offense. I will wait and see what else happens. Ultimately, if the legal system thinks he was actually guilty of breaking the law, he will be charged and we can all see it beyond a reasonable doubt.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
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