Questions for poster NarrowIsTheWay - Page 2

nahkoe · #11 07-24-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Nahkoe, I think I agree more with you on this, but to be fair, I don't think they exclude anyone from coming to their church... or have a prerequisite for what you have to do/wear. If they come and enjoy the service, are in Bible Study, it's just a matter of time until group conformity sets in and they want to be like everyone else and not stand out!

Ah..but the thing is, I wouldn't feel welcome there because I know very well if what I'm wearing is such a stumbling block to them, there's no way they could deal with the very real sin (you know, the stuff the Bible calls sin) that I was dealing with when I came into church, and honestly still deal with.

The first church I went to, I did clean up and live the ultra con standards. But because I'm divorced and my ex didn't want my kids in church anyhow, and I knew he could well say they couldn't go and get away with it, I didn't make my daughter follow these standards in order to keep the peace with him. When the pastor told me I was going to go to hell because she wore pants, all I could think of were the things he didn't know about. I'd never felt ok telling him those things because he very nearly didn't know what to do with what little I had told him about. If clothes was so heaven or hell, then forget it..I was beyond hope because I was dealing with stuff far, far, far, far, far bigger than that.

It's not an ultracon issue. I have friends who are, and their support has been absolutely invaluable to me. As much as these friends have done for me, prayed for me, offered support, encouragement, etc, I'm not sure I'd be ok in some of their churches because I would feel out of place.

Dragging a bunch of dirt into a church that emphasizes cleanliness isn't going to work so well. That's exactly what I felt like I was doing.

nahkoe · #12 07-24-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

[/B]

No way! first they need God to do a work on their heart. Nobody is uncomfortable when they come to our church because of how they look unless they are convicted by God. Do you really think that we tell sinners this stuff when they walk in our doors?

No one *told* me either. But it was very obvious what was expected because of the emphasis placed on dressing and looking holy.

hometown guy · #13 07-24-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Ah..but the thing is, I wouldn't feel welcome there because I know very well if what I'm wearing is such a stumbling block to them, there's no way they could deal with the very real sin (you know, the stuff the Bible calls sin) that I was dealing with when I came into church, and honestly still deal with.

The first church I went to, I did clean up and live the ultra con standards. But because I'm divorced and my ex didn't want my kids in church anyhow, and I knew he could well say they couldn't go and get away with it, I didn't make my daughter follow these standards in order to keep the peace with him. When the pastor told me I was going to go to hell because she wore pants, all I could think of were the things he didn't know about. I'd never felt ok telling him those things because he very nearly didn't know what to do with what little I had told him about. If clothes was so heaven or hell, then forget it..I was beyond hope because I was dealing with stuff far, far, far, far, far bigger than that.

It's not an ultracon issue. I have friends who are, and their support has been absolutely invaluable to me. As much as these friends have done for me, prayed for me, offered support, encouragement, etc, I'm not sure I'd be ok in some of their churches because I would feel out of place.

Dragging a bunch of dirt into a church that emphasizes cleanliness isn't going to work so well. That's exactly what I felt like I was doing.

I don’t know the situation but it sounds like he didn’t get to the root of the problem. The root of the problem was not her wearing pants but her parents not teaching her submission.

*AQuietPlace* · #14 07-24-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

I don’t know the situation but it sounds like he didn’t get to the root of the problem. The root of the problem was not her wearing pants but her parents not teaching her submission.

I can't believe you just said that.

hometown guy · #15 07-24-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I can't believe you just said that.

I said it with a smile...i just forgot to put it

*AQuietPlace* · #16 07-24-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

I said it with a smile...i just forgot to put it

Smiling or not, did you really read nahkoe's post?

hometown guy · #17 07-24-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Smiling or not, did you really read nahkoe's post?

No I didn’t read I just skimmed through it. I am sorry nahkoe. I apologize. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I hope you accept it.

nahkoe · #18 07-24-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

I don’t know the situation but it sounds like he didn’t get to the root of the problem. The root of the problem was not her wearing pants but her parents not teaching her submission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I can't believe you just said that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

I said it with a smile...i just forgot to put it

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Smiling or not, did you really read nahkoe's post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

No I didn’t read I just skimmed through it. I am sorry nahkoe. I apologize. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I hope you accept it.

So now that that's out of the way, and you've really read it, do you see what I'm saying about feeling out of place? Nothing has to be said. It comes across when all the outside stuff is emphasized.

I came into church from a subculture that takes a pretty heavy rap in pretty much all Christian churches. Having grown up in a church, I knew full well that I had to be careful who I told and how I told them. I've seen how people are treated in a lot of places when they have this in their past and/or present. To then have this focus on clothing and make up and hair when I knew that inside I was something these people would find disgusting and unwelcome didn't help me face up to that or seek the help and support I needed to get through that, and just maybe past it.

As things would go, God did provide support for me, and a fair bit of that comes from people considered ultracon. I suspect this is in part to keep me from throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't think American churches as a whole are conducive to reaching sinners. I'm definitely not picking just on UPC or Apostolics or ultra con or anything like that. But I will tell you that the more focus there is on the outside, the more fake it looks from the world.

Arphaxad · #19 07-24-2009, 07:10 PM

[QUOTE=1Corinth2v4;777390]

If a male congregant didn't wear a tie to every church service, he wouldn't be considered for any future position.

haha, this reminds me of a story D Segraves told of a preacher that was invited to preach in a former eastern bloc country, anyway none of the men wore ties in that church because all the communist dudes wore ties and they didn't want to be associated with comunists. The visiting preacher said he was going to wear his tie anyway and the host pastor told him " Do you want everyone to concentrate on your sermon or on your tie?" He removed his tie and preached a wonderful sermon.

GrowingPains · #20 07-24-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nahkoe

So now that that's out of the way, and you've really read it, do you see what I'm saying about feeling out of place? Nothing has to be said. It comes across when all the outside stuff is emphasized.

I came into church from a subculture that takes a pretty heavy rap in pretty much all Christian churches. Having grown up in a church, I knew full well that I had to be careful who I told and how I told them. I've seen how people are treated in a lot of places when they have this in their past and/or present. To then have this focus on clothing and make up and hair when I knew that inside I was something these people would find disgusting and unwelcome didn't help me face up to that or seek the help and support I needed to get through that, and just maybe past it.

As things would go, God did provide support for me, and a fair bit of that comes from people considered ultracon. I suspect this is in part to keep me from throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't think American churches as a whole are conducive to reaching sinners. I'm definitely not picking just on UPC or Apostolics or ultra con or anything like that. But I will tell you that the more focus there is on the outside, the more fake it looks from the world.

Nahkoe the church will always be a little different. If it was like where you were coming from, what's the point. They that hunger and thirst will be saved. I'm not justifying their church, but I don't believe the church should be more congruent with the troubled, weary, and tired souls seeking refuge. The church is distinct and different. Modesty, godliness, joy, humility and worship itself will make anyone perhaps uncomfortable.

To you other points, dogmatizing things that aren't certainly are harmful and needless stumbling blocks for sinners.