JP looking our way - Page 6

Scott Hutchinson · #51 08-03-2009, 08:04 PM

Praise God for people's convictions and we must be modest for modesty is part of being a witness for Christ but wearing clothing and looking a certain way does not make one Holy,Holiness is a relationship with Christ,and if one has a walk with God,then one will make an effort to abstain from things that Jesus is not pleased with.

pelathais · #52 08-03-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

Pel, I don't doubt it at all. I think it's sad and sickening, and I'm sorry you had to go through it.

However, it seems that the leadership of that church was corrupt/backslid, and it spilled over to the people. You seem to have escaped.

However, the very same argument you are using against "holiness" (which I have said isn't holiness at all), can be used against those who don't believe in standards at all.

Jesus preached to Judas, Paul ministered with Demas. Because people backslide or become corrupt doesn't necessarily mean the doctrine they believe/believed was wrong.

That's a good point, and it brings us back to "doctrine." Are the customary dress codes among us "good doctrine?" When we find the apostles and even the OT saints living and dressing according to a different standard than ours (and I don't just mean style changes over the years) then shouldn't we be more open to reevaluating our creed?

And FWIW - those that you refer to as "backsliders" are still esteemed among us today - but I'm still the cast-off. I was literally the scapegoat that carried away their sins. Now, they get applause when they enter an Apostolic church service.

Scott Hutchinson · #53 08-03-2009, 08:08 PM

The doctrine of Holiness is important in being a follower of Christ,and just because some are overbearing in manmade commandments,does not mean that we should throw the baby out with the bathwater either.
This anything goes cheap grace doctrine that is taught in the church world is a perversion.

Servetus · #54 08-03-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's a good point, and it brings us back to "doctrine." Are the customary dress codes among us "good doctrine?" When we find the apostles and even the OT saints living and dressing according to a different standard than ours (and I don't just mean style changes over the years) then shouldn't we be more open to reevaluating our creed?

I agree, perhaps you overlooked this thought:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

While I believe in keeping the standards, I do believe we as a church need to re-evaluate the emphasis we put on them. Indeed there is no such thing as "holiness standards", but only "modesty standards".

Also, I will be the first to admit that there have been many Pentecostals who got the mindset that how they dressed made them holy. That attitude is indeed an enemy of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We need balance, we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water, which is exactly what most people do when they decide not to keep "standards". They go to the extreme opposite. Fact is there is a ditch on both sides of the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

And FWIW - those that you refer to as "backsliders" are still esteemed among us today - but I'm still the cast-off. I was literally the scapegoat that carried away their sins. Now, they get applause when they enter an Apostolic church service.

Well the Bible does say it's appointed once unto man to die then after that ....................

pelathais · #55 08-03-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

I agree, perhaps you overlooked this thought:

It is an excellent thought and I did fail to do it justice.

tv1a · #56 08-04-2009, 02:56 AM

According to scripture, standards become witchcraft when one attempts to impose them on others by threatening their salvation or judging their walk with God. No axe to grind. Scripture. Reread Romans and Galatians. It ties in rather nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

I would say that is the exception, not the rule. As a general rule, it seems leaving standards is the proverbial "slippery slope."

Now, as for standards being witchcraft, that is ridiculous-sounds like an axe to grind to me. And while I believe in keeping the standards, I do believe we as a church need to re-evaluate the emphasis we put on them. Indeed there is no such thing as "holiness standards", but only "modesty standards".

Also, I will be the first to admit that there have been many Pentecostals who got the mindset that how they dressed made them holy. That attitude is indeed an enemy of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We need balance, we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water, which is exactly what most people do when they decide not to keep "standards". They go to the extreme opposite. Fact is there is a ditch on both sides of the road.

n david · #57 08-04-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Carl

I got this in an email today. The person who sent it said it was from a preachers internet forum. Is this the forum your talking about? The tone of the message worried me.

A picture of a sniper rifle was in the email with the words 'locked and loaded' over it along with "those guys (who have a disdain for separation) are putting a target on their chest."

Unbelievable.

When did, "we wrestle not against flesh and blood" stop? We believe in the same God, the same plan of salvation ... the only exception being outward standards ... why do we seek to kill our own?

Esther · #58 08-04-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

Unbelievable.

When did, "we wrestle not against flesh and blood" stop? We believe in the same God, the same plan of salvation ... the only exception being outward standards ... why do we seek to kill our own?

Because satan will always have you majoring on the minors to keep you away from what is important. JMO

Servetus · #59 08-04-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tv1a

According to scripture, standards become witchcraft when one attempts to impose them on others by threatening their salvation or judging their walk with God. No axe to grind. Scripture. Reread Romans and Galatians. It ties in rather nicely.

Did I not say that already?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

The problem isn't the standards, it is putting the wrong emphasis/over emphasis on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servetus

And while I believe in keeping the standards, I do believe we as a church need to re-evaluate the emphasis we put on them. Indeed there is no such thing as "holiness standards", but only "modesty standards".

Now then, about reading Romans and Galatians, can I find them at my local library?

IAintMovin · #60 08-05-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Who runs APF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

If it is a "former" iteration of JP then it would be the same guy who started JP.

Maybe they're just trying out new logo ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

One Admin handed ownership to another one.

Same team.

Former owner even still Admin.

But still APF?

Gotta reflect an urge right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

JP forum is now APF forum. Apostolic Preachers Forum.

Rumors have it this reflects a move back the middle.

One by one moderation reigns.

Is there a merger in the Future?

Who will draft the Unity Statement?

APF and AFF will become UAF?

FTR..........The Dude who started it, by his own choice, does not even have access to the forum - not sure if I am still listed as an admin, have been told that if I decide to return that it would be fine to remain an admin, but it is my choice......also FTR.....the one who started JP.com has nothing to do with the APF.com now, (did think it kinda funny how close the names are - but, hey after all we all love each other - right?)..........APF stands on its own and no ties to the first owner of JP.com...........The owner now is Rev. Douglas White.........IAM - no ownership whatsoever.........

And while I will never say never, I have no plans to return to APF.com..........nothing wrong with the forum, just a choice I make.........