DKB: The Leader

[tstew]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I understand.

I'm pretty sure we all sort things out in our own minds and aren't easily swayed by anything we read here.

Stop and think about ALL the things that have been posted about K. Haney even from preachers that he's leading and no one's worried about someone reading that and tainting his reputation.

It's just inconsistent.

When I read the initial post about this situation I did not like it, but at first I was not going to respond. The more I read and thought about it, though, the more I did see the need to be sure that this thing was balanced out.

Many people are affected by what they read here. Particularly if it is someone they know a little talking about someone they don't really know at all. This is a sensitive time in the org in my opinion and many people read these threads with no idea what kind of leader Bro Bernard is.

...and it's difficult to sort things out in our own mind without all of the information...

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by tstew

RG, All I'm saying is that it would be very easy for people to walk away saying that he was impulsive, jumped to conclusions, made a youthful mistake or whatever...and not know the whole situations. As someone who has seen many of the same types of situations unfold, I know that there are usually complex legal issues in addition to the complex interpersonal issues. I would suspect that that may be a large reason as to why DKB was the one handling the situation in the first place. He was characterized as impulsively writing a letter placing himself in a situation that he had no knowledge about and no reason to be involved in. I'm just saying that that might not be a fair characterization

tstew, it's just over-protective, and misplaced. The first few posts on this thread were MUCH more provocative and potentially offensive than anything Sister Alvear had to say. Why are those being ignored while Sister Alvear's comment is being shredded?

Too much angst for a very little comment, IMO.

Furthermore, I'm a smart girl. I don't make firm decisions about people and situations until I've heard all the facts. It insults my intelligence for someone to assume a negative comment is going to turn me against a man I barely know. I posted with a characterization of Sister Alvear's perspective--not my own. I've heard COUNTLESS negative comments about other preachers over the years--mostly by other preachers and their wives--and I learned a LONG time ago to take things with a grain of salt. Sometimes people are just venting, sometimes its just a bad experience, sometimes its legitimate, and sometimes its just plain gossipy and malicious. In this case, Sister Alvear mentioned that she had a negative interaction with DB, and thought he handled something badly. Got it. Doesn't really affect my overall opinion of DB, BECAUSE, even if I took Sister Alvear's account as law and gospel, it still only relates a poor judgment call, and nothing worse than that.

Now, PO's reactions on this thread? They're making me think she needs to take some herbal remedies to balance out her hormones.

[tstew]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

tstew, it's just over-protective, and misplaced. The first few posts on this thread were MUCH more provocative and potentially offensive than anything Sister Alvear had to say. Why are those being ignored while Sister Alvear's comment is being shredded?

Too much angst for a very little comment, IMO.

Furthermore, I'm a smart girl. I don't make firm decisions about people and situations until I've heard all the facts. It insults my intelligence for someone to assume a negative comment is going to turn me against a man I barely know. I posted with a characterization of Sister Alvear's perspective--not my own. I've heard COUNTLESS negative comments about other preachers over the years--mostly by other preachers and their wives--and I learned a LONG time ago to take things with a grain of salt. Sometimes people are just venting, sometimes its just a bad experience, sometimes its legitimate, and sometimes its just plain gossipy and malicious. In this case, Sister Alvear mentioned that she had a negative interaction with DB, and thought he handled something badly. Got it. Doesn't really affect my overall opinion of DB, BECAUSE, even if I took Sister Alvear's account as law and gospel, it still only relates a poor judgment call, and nothing worse than that.

Now, PO's reactions on this thread? They're making me think she needs to take some herbal remedies to balance out her hormones.

Miss B, I know that I don't read every post of every thread, but very rarely do I see specific stories being told about how a specific (and named) leader did something "wrong" to someone here personally.

I am not terribly concerned about anything like this affecting you personally, but I know how scuttlebut works and I know how many people come to AFF for info and I know how stories get repeated as gospel and are used to characterize and mischaracterize people.

At this point, I just don't think it is good to have stories circulating illustrating "poor judgement" on his behalf if it cannot be fully demonstrated... or at the very least challenged.

I have a tremendous deal of respect for Sis A and always will. However, I think that if we can wonder if Bro. Bernard showed poor judgement in a situation that we know very little about, we should also be able to wonder if she showed poor judgement in a situation that unfolded right in front of us.

[rgcraig]

And perhaps if that was the real concern, the post could have been reported, deleted and over with.

Instead we are still talking about it.

[tstew]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

And perhaps if that was the real concern, the post could have been reported, deleted and over with.

Instead we are still talking about it.

You know that PO is a fighter and not a snitch

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by tstew

You know that PO is a fighter and not a snitch

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by tstew

Miss B, I know that I don't read every post of every thread, but very rarely do I see specific stories being told about how a specific (and named) leader did something "wrong" to someone here personally.

I am not terribly concerned about anything like this affecting you personally, but I know how scuttlebut works and I know how many people come to AFF for info and I know how stories get repeated as gospel and are used to characterize and mischaracterize people.

At this point, I just don't think it is good to have stories circulating illustrating "poor judgement" on his behalf if it cannot be fully demonstrated... or at the very least challenged.

I have a tremendous deal of respect for Sis A and always will. However, I think that if we can wonder if Bro. Bernard showed poor judgement in a situation that we know very little about, we should also be able to wonder if she showed poor judgement in a situation that unfolded right in front of us.

Sure. That's fair. The post just wasn't worthy of the angst coming from some corners. It's overdone.

I agree that a little thing can become a very big thing, once it gets to the end of the grapevine--if there is an end to the grapevine....

I also feel that Bro. Bernard is deserving of respect because of his position of authority, even when and if he makes mistakes--and he most certainly has and will. I'm more than a little disappointed at the posts of some people referencing Bro. Haney, Bro. Mooney, Bro. Bernard and others with a viciousness I haven't seen since, well, since the last time I sat around a table with a bunch of ministers in a fellowship hall about 10 years ago. I don't miss being part of that scene, and I appreciate the lack of such conversations when we fellowship with our present pastor and wife.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Pel,
I don't think that is exactly accurate. His mother-in-law went to church with us and when she left to help him, no one thought one thing about it. We were happy he had a close base of faithful people to work with and they had wonderful testimonies of healing and deliverance starting out.

Whoever was gossiping about that had it wrong and just wanted some sensational gossip.

I logged back in to say that I verified that with my husband. He said he didn't think anyone was upset about that - "At least I never heard anything about it."

He has built a beautiful church in a lovely community. We have many friends that are still members there.

I think you missed something in what I was trying to say - or more likely, I didn't say it well. You're right about folks close to the situation - and those who gossiped were in fact 100's of miles away if not 1000's. It's easier to gossip about what you can only imagine. If it's right there on your doorstep you kind of have to be a bit more understanding.

I had one guy sitting in my office with me and the elder just blasting away at DKB with both barrels. He had just come fresh from an unnamed West Coast conf. that they don't hold anymore and was literally fuming.

"But Bro... !" he pleaded. "He's stealing saints from ...'s church!" The guy was obviously and aggressively proselytizing us like someone who had way too much coffee.

I seriously doubted at the time, and to this day, that folks close to the situation could possibly be as agitated as this guy was. And I very much doubted that the pastor who was supposedly "victimized" by this "saint stealing" felt anything other than good will to the new home missionary in town. I greatly admired that pastor and still think he preached the best GC sermon ever in the history of the UPC.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

This response is precisely why you shouldn't even be posting on this thread. I did nothing of the sort, and you are overreacting to everything. Turnabout's fair play, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander--or haven't you ever heard those cliches????

Let's see....

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

He's a former poster here. Not a stranger to us, of which, I stated in my posts I was joking,

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Were you?

Are you having some trouble with your reading skills? You might as well say, "I'm not sure you aren't lying."

I'm wondering how you thought I was going to interpret that, Bratti?

You're being overly critical of Sister Alvear for her post, but on another thread you made comments about Mark Bassett that would leave any uninformed reader wondering. YES, we all know you were joking when you said you "hated" him, and yes, some of your comments were just meant to be comical, but those who were here when both of you were posting together know that there is SOME truth to your reaction. Not of hatred or malice, but of general frustration, annoyance, and maybe some measure of dislike.

When I initially read you talking about a man that hated MB, I thought it was funny and decided to play off of your post. Yes, I did carry it too far, but I'm quite sure that I don't hate him. Besides, I never said anything about his character. I never made comments on that. I left it open to how I felt, albeit, joking, but never mentioned anything about his character.

Anyway, I did NOT call you a liar--AQP and I were BOTH teasing you.

You sure about that? How do you interpret that, Bratti?

You're just mad, and now you're turning it on me. When you calm down, tell your husband you're sorry for disobeying his orders, and go look at some pretty shoe pictures at Zappos.com until you feel like yourself again.

I'm not turning that on you. I have good reason to question your posts to me.

I am now in my happy place......

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by tstew

You know that PO is a fighter and not a snitch

I can add that to my list - I'm not a tattle tale!