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  #81  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:12 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

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Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
It all has to do with what is considered male and female attire in whatever country you are in.

You'll have to listen to the message. I'm probably doing a horrible job of expressing my thoughts.
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  #82  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:27 PM
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
...It may be okay for an Indian woman to wear pants because that is the cultural norm for women in that country but not in the USA. ...
.
Pants have been accepted on women in the USA for many years now.
It has been a "cultural norm" here for years.
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  #83  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:30 PM
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

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I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I personally don't think God has anything to do with our political/religious organizations.
This is an editorial which appeared on page 2 of the March 1953 Pentecostal Herald. I don't know who the Editor was at that time.

DOES GOD RECOGNIZE ORGANIZATION?

When a God-fearing man makes a decision for the betterment of his spiritual welfare, his first point of consideration is whether his move is ordered of the Lord. He is well aware of the many pit falls into which he could plunge if his decision was not endorsed by the law of God. Therefore, he will take no step in any direction without precipitation or forethought. He shall stand still and see the salvation of the Lord. He will wait patiently until he is spiritually enlightened to the approval of God upon the thing that he is about to accept. This man is a wise master builder and need we question his integrity to judge between right and wrong?

Can we get the endorsement of the Holy Scriptures on our organization? Can we authentically say that we are recognized of the Lord as an organizational body? If we can prove, by the word of God, that our motives, aspirations and only thought is to further the Kingdom of God, will a man dare say that organization lessens an individual's spirituality, limits the power of the ministry, and it is a waste of money to support its cause?

What is organization but the amalgamation of those who are akin in doctrine and purpose? The church of Pentecost, of which we are a part, was founded solely upon the doctrines of the Apostles and Prophets with Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone. God does not necessarily accept an organization by name, but rather by the doctrine it teaches. The Lord Jesus never gave a name to His church, but He did create and institute the laws and doctrines that should govern it. If we obey from the heart that form of doctrine which Christ taught, we must, of necessity, combine our forces to fight the onslaught of the devil and all other false religions. We will agree that as an individualist a man can chase a thousand, but the strength of two (An Organization) can put ten thousand to flight. Self gratification will cause a man to be more pleased with chasing a thousand by his own hand and thereby receive all the glory, rather than join hands with his neighbor (who is fighting the same enemy) and put to flight ten thousand, and share the glory with his friend.

Yes, God recognizes organization, for in reality it is but the performance of each organ in His body or church. The earliest form of church government or organization was-"Where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there will I be in the midst of them." Here He was trying to teach us unification or organization in His name. Christ taught the oneness of the God Head but never did he teach individualism, and this was for the purpose of establishing an organization of all believers in His name and doctrine. He goes further to say, "If any of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing, that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in Heaven."

Many will cry for unity but remain an individualist never realizing they are causing the breach by not joining those whom God has blessed and has approved as ambassadors to preach the "whole Gospel to the whole world." God surely recognizes organization for it eliminates all those who would be isolationists and ties together those who desire unity of
faith, of doctrine and purpose.

DOES ORGANIZATION LESSEN SPIRITUALITY?

If organization brings unity, and unity discloses strength then it is logical to believe that organization will heighten the spirituality of an individual if he abides by its precepts.

One of the most spiritual men of all times was the Apostle Paul. Upon receiving this Apostolic Doctrine he immediately joined the Apostolic organization of that day. He left Damascus for Jerusalem, the Churches headquarters, where he "assayed to join himself to the disciples." (Acts 9:26) The learned man that he was, could have been his cue for starting a work in some remote region and have nothing to do with "Brethren of like precious faith, yet for the sake of, an organized group of Apostolic ministers and lay members, his first move after conversion, was to forsake all thoughts of striking out on His own. Instead he became just one of the many who were organized to do business for God.

If being a member of an organization would lessen our spiritual depth, I am sure the Lord would have instructed His disciples to refrain from such a curse. However, through the plan adopted we read in the scriptures that the disciples (or Preachers) "went forth and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following."
(Mark 16:20)

When the headquarters at Jerusalem suffered severe persecution they immediately chose another site which was the city of Antioch of Syria. Many business transactions were conducted in this city. For instance, Paul and Barnabas were stationed here until they were anointed and sent forth to be missionaries. Upon the completion of the first and second missionary trip they invariably reported back to Antioch about the happenings on the mission fields. They also settled any business matters that might have arisen.

Another wonderful trait favoring organization with the various appointments of officials is found in the fact and life of James, the brother of Jesus. He appears as the head of the church (or organization) rivaling Peter in importance (Galatians 1:18) presiding over and making decisions at the council of the church (Acts 15:13-34) and receiving the report of Paul's third missionary journey. (Acts 21:18)

Every indication in the scriptures is to the effect that the organized group in the early church was deepened in spirituality, not by isolationism but by a banding together and by conducting their business in an orderly and business-like manner.

DOES ORGANIZATION LIMIT OUR POWER?

Many will accept the thought of fellowship, but will shun the possibility of becoming a member of an organization. Their contention is that it tends to lessen their religious liberty and diminishes their power. For an illustration of this contention, may I ask, "By putting a bridle and bit on a horse, does it limit his power?" No, but it does give him a sense of direction and leads him in the right paths. May I ask further, "If a man puts a harness on his team of horses and hitches them to a plow or wagon, does this limit his power?" No, but it does put the power of the team to working in the right channels. A team unharnessed is a
team that is of very little value. And we say, reverently, that the power of God working in the right channels will accomplish far more through an organized body than through dissemblance, individualism and such like. Organization is to the individual what the harness is to a team of horses. It does not bind him, but it will keep his feet lest they be turned on to strange and forbidden paths. It will not thwart his power as a christian, but will aid him in putting all his power to work in the right channel, lest he roam the fields unobligated, irresponsible, and unharnessed to any task.

DOES ORGANIZATION MERIT SUPPORT?

The United Pentecostal Church, an organization of oneness ministers and lay members, is being more and more blessed with the goodness of God. Inasmuch as it is being blessed and approved of God, indicates its merit for support. It is only through the prayer and financial support of its members that it can survive. If through our organization we are able to establish churches in foreign lands and at home, it is obvious that God is with us, and is pleased to have us support the medium through which He can be conveyed to the world and exemplified before all people every where.

At the present time we are engaged in the project of raising the necessary funds to remodel our newly acquired headquarters building so that it will properly house all departments of our great fellowship. With proper facilities at headquarters, every phase of the work will be benefited on the fields both at home and abroad. Let us all rally to the need, and pray that God will give us an insight to the importance of supporting our organization. By so doing we will do it not because of duty, but because of love and because we have an earnest desire to see the gospel sent out to the lost and dying world.
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  #84  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:31 PM
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Theophil Theophil is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
I choose to believe the reason PM gave for removing his name. If he lied to his fellow ministers then God knows his heart and will judge him.
I was there when he withdrew his name. I have known PM for near 30 years. I believe him to be as he appears to be, an honest and sincere man of God with a great sense of humor. God bless him, he had the office of GS in his pocket and withdrew his name because he believed that is what God wanted. I may be naive, unsophisticated, simple, but that is how I see it.
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Last edited by Theophil; 10-08-2009 at 08:36 PM.
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  #85  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:54 PM
*AQuietPlace*'s Avatar
*AQuietPlace* *AQuietPlace* is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
It all has to do with what is considered male and female attire in whatever country you are in.

You'll have to listen to the message. I'm probably doing a horrible job of expressing my thoughts.
I understood you, but I think that point is pretty weak, since in our culture women now wear pants, just as in India.
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  #86  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:08 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Pants have been accepted on women in the USA for many years now.
It has been a "cultural norm" here for years.
yes it is.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #87  
Old 10-08-2009, 11:23 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
I understood you, but I think that point is pretty weak, since in our culture women now wear pants, just as in India.
DB seems to understand it to be about the distinction of the sexes as it relates to the culture. He spoke about how our culture has changed since WW2 concerning women wearing pants but still doesn't believe that women should wear pants in public because there is now no distinction. I believe he is wrong. The feminist agenda can do what it likes and does try to look like men, but seriously, most women wear women's pants and attempt to look like women.

Like I said, really weak scriptural arguments. I think I was more surprised with his stance on "in public".
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear

Last edited by mizpeh; 10-08-2009 at 11:27 PM.
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  #88  
Old 10-08-2009, 11:48 PM
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*AQuietPlace* *AQuietPlace* is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
DB seems to understand it to be about the distinction of the sexes as it relates to the culture. He spoke about how our culture has changed since WW2 concerning women wearing pants but still doesn't believe that women should wear pants in public because there is now no distinction. I believe he is wrong. The feminist agenda can do what it likes and does try to look like men, but seriously, most women wear women's pants and attempt to look like women.

Like I said, really weak scriptural arguments. I think I was more surprised with his stance on "in public".
I agree with you. I was surprised that he thought it might be okay in India, but not America. That just seems odd.

Most women of my acquaintance are very much interested in looking feminine. That's why so much money is spent in the beauty industry each year.
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  #89  
Old 10-09-2009, 06:33 AM
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Justin Justin is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
DB seems to understand it to be about the distinction of the sexes as it relates to the culture. He spoke about how our culture has changed since WW2 concerning women wearing pants but still doesn't believe that women should wear pants in public because there is now no distinction. I believe he is wrong. The feminist agenda can do what it likes and does try to look like men, but seriously, most women wear women's pants and attempt to look like women.

Like I said, really weak scriptural arguments. I think I was more surprised with his stance on "in public".
It's only an abomination in public. God said so.
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  #90  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:46 AM
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GraceAmazing GraceAmazing is offline
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Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions

I think someone already mentioned this, but I think it's truth....I think Mooney pulled his name because the lineage of the church (in law) has not been established. A lot of people do not want him as their pastor...I think PM is a good man, but he knows where to stay if he wants to keep a job and money coming in...in Indy. At a great church, good school and at least he's sticking with the building program!
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