WHY?

[Jermyn Davidson]

...does God allow the circumstances that HE KNOWS will ultimately lead that person to sin?

How on earth can one overcome and why even pursue the overcoming in the first place when God allowed the circumstances that planted the seeds for tremendous failure-- failure that seems perpetual, if not in word and action every time, in thoughts almost daily?



How can I ever get to a place where I am pleasing God?

There are sins that have existed in my life (in thought or action) that persists, that come back, even after the most powerful experiences with God I've been blessed to know.


I'd trade the emotional highs of Pentecostal worship and unquestionable moves of God, for a life completely free from one or two sins that contradict every notion that I might be saved.

I want to experience that kind of a move of God. I have in some areas, but not all.


I'm not sad, for real. I am just at my wits end in pursuing a life that reflects the Holy Ghost that I profess I have.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

...does God allow the circumstances that HE KNOWS will ultimately lead that person to sin?

I Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Let's face it: We put ourselves in circumstances that lead to sin, most of the time. God doesn't put us there, and He won't override our human will to be there. However, I Corinthians tells us that God is faithful, and He won't allow us to be tempted above our ability, but will provide us a way of escape with the temptation.

Do you think that God will not allow you to put yourself in compromising situations? Let's say, for example, that your weakness is stealing. Why would you apply for a job at a bank, and then expect God to stop you from taking money? It's still your choice to sin, and you've purposely put yourself in the vicinity of your biggest vice. There are times when temptation happens on its own, but often it's our own bad choices that led us there. Not necessarily sinful choices initially, but bad ones just the same.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.


P.S. Don't pursue a lifestyle. Pursue God. When you find yourself tempted, go talk to God. I don't care if it's in the middle of a crowded room and you're the star attraction and everyone's going to ask you where you're going or wonder where you went. You have to drag your SELF away and put your SELF in God's capable hands.


It's a dangerous thing when we start laying the blame for our own guilt at someone else's feet, especially God's. We alone are guilty, we alone are responsible, and we will answer for our deeds.

Not everyone can live right on just a few minutes of prayer a day, Jermyn. Some people need to turn to God constantly in order to keep themselves in line. I'm one of them. God knows I have the stinkiest attitude and spirit if I don't lay it at His feet every day. I have a hot temper that I could claim I inherited, but the truth is, it's MY anger, my flesh, and what I do with it determines whether I have to go repent to God and other people for sin. Is it a sin to be angry? Nope. But I can sure sin BECAUSE I'm angry. Is it a sin to find women attractive? No, but you can sure let that natural attraction lead you by your nose into sin if you let your mind or body take you there. Is it a sin to want nice things in your life? No, but its a sin to be greedy and let the love of money guide your decisions. Is it a sin to want other people to like you? No, but its a sin to lie to them so they'll think better of you than they might otherwise. We have natural human feelings and emotions that aren't sinful, but we can let them lead us and guide us into sin by making choices that "feed" the flesh.

Ultimately, YOU are in control. Your sins are not the fault of anyone else, anymore than my sins are your fault.

Man is the one who brought sin into the world. God has spent a lot of time and effort since then giving him a way to redeem himself, because He loves us SO much He doesn't want our stupid choices to lead us to eternal damnation. He gives us a way out--both in the short term(moment of temptation) AND the long term(after we've already sinned)--it's up to us to take it.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

...does God allow the circumstances that HE KNOWS will ultimately lead that person to sin?

Because life is life and it happens.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

How on earth can one overcome and why even pursue the overcoming in the first place when God allowed the circumstances that planted the seeds for tremendous failure-- failure that seems perpetual, if not in word and action every time, in thoughts almost daily?

I'll get back to this... In a pm. lol I changed my mind about putting this out there.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

How can I ever get to a place where I am pleasing God?

You are. Exactly the way you are. You can't earn it. You can't do anything to make yourself look better to Him.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

There are sins that have existed in my life (in thought or action) that persists, that come back, even after the most powerful experiences with God I've been blessed to know.

You know I understand...

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I'd trade the emotional highs of Pentecostal worship and unquestionable moves of God, for a life completely free from one or two sins that contradict every notion that I might be saved.

I want to experience that kind of a move of God. I have in some areas, but not all.


I'm not sad, for real. I am just at my wits end in pursuing a life that reflects the Holy Ghost that I profess I have.

You can't do it. I think that might be where you're getting hung up. It's not you, if you could do it, you'd already have done it.

Right?

Hey, take a look at my sigline! Think about that for awhile. It'll mess with your head I think. It sure has with mine.

[Sam]

Someone once asked, "Are you a sinner who struggles to love God or are you a lover of God who struggles with sin?"

You are not the first person to go through this. The Apostle Paul evidently did too. Here's his description of his struggle in the New King James Bible and also in the Message:

8 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. NKJV

17-20 But I need something more! For if I know the law but still can't keep it, and if the power of sin within me keeps sabotaging my best intentions, I obviously need help! I realize that I don't have what it takes. I can will it, but I can't do it. I decide to do good, but I don't really do it; I decide not to do bad, but then I do it anyway. My decisions, such as they are, don't result in actions. Something has gone wrong deep within me and gets the better of me every time. 21-23 It happens so regularly that it's predictable. The moment I decide to do good, sin is there to trip me up. I truly delight in God's commands, but it's pretty obvious that not all of me joins in that delight. Parts of me covertly rebel, and just when I least expect it, they take charge. 24 I've tried everything and nothing helps. I'm at the end of my rope. Is there no one who can do anything for me? Isn't that the real question?25 The answer, thank God, is that Jesus Christ can and does. He acted to set things right in this life of contradictions where I want to serve God with all my heart and mind, but am pulled by the influence of sin to do something totally different. The Message

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Let's face it: We put ourselves in circumstances that lead to sin, most of the time. God doesn't put us there, and He won't override our human will to be there. However, I Corinthians tells us that God is faithful, and He won't allow us to be tempted above our ability, but will provide us a way of escape with the temptation.

Do you think that God will not allow you to put yourself in compromising situations? Let's say, for example, that your weakness is stealing. Why would you apply for a job at a bank, and then expect God to stop you from taking money? It's still your choice to sin, and you've purposely put yourself in the vicinity of your biggest vice. There are times when temptation happens on its own, but often it's our own bad choices that led us there. Not necessarily sinful choices initially, but bad ones just the same.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.


P.S. Don't pursue a lifestyle. Pursue God. When you find yourself tempted, go talk to God. I don't care if it's in the middle of a crowded room and you're the star attraction and everyone's going to ask you where you're going or wonder where you went. You have to drag your SELF away and put your SELF in God's capable hands.


It's a dangerous thing when we start laying the blame for our own guilt at someone else's feet, especially God's. We alone are guilty, we alone are responsible, and we will answer for our deeds.

Not everyone can live right on just a few minutes of prayer a day, Jermyn. Some people need to turn to God constantly in order to keep themselves in line. I'm one of them. God knows I have the stinkiest attitude and spirit if I don't lay it at His feet every day. I have a hot temper that I could claim I inherited, but the truth is, it's MY anger, my flesh, and what I do with it determines whether I have to go repent to God and other people for sin. Is it a sin to be angry? Nope. But I can sure sin BECAUSE I'm angry. Is it a sin to find women attractive? No, but you can sure let that natural attraction lead you by your nose into sin if you let your mind or body take you there. Is it a sin to want nice things in your life? No, but its a sin to be greedy and let the love of money guide your decisions. Is it a sin to want other people to like you? No, but its a sin to lie to them so they'll think better of you than they might otherwise. We have natural human feelings and emotions that aren't sinful, but we can let them lead us and guide us into sin by making choices that "feed" the flesh.

Ultimately, YOU are in control. Your sins are not the fault of anyone else, anymore than my sins are your fault.

Man is the one who brought sin into the world. God has spent a lot of time and effort since then giving him a way to redeem himself, because He loves us SO much He doesn't want our stupid choices to lead us to eternal damnation. He gives us a way out--both in the short term(moment of temptation) AND the long term(after we've already sinned)--it's up to us to take it.

Excellent post, those scriptures were exactly what came to mind as I read his post.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

...does God allow the circumstances that HE KNOWS will ultimately lead that person to sin?

I thing God allows circumstances that he knows will ultimately lead people to sin because he knows we are sinners...but he also knows that repentance and resisting sin strengthens our spirits. He allows the storms for our greater good. For example... David. Why did God allow circumstances that brought David into sin?

David had eight wives before he finally found the one God chose for him. Each reveals something about David's needs and interests at the time...

Mikal - Her name means "brook" or "stream". She was religiously Jewish to the point of legalism. But David's happiness wasn't to be found in "religion".

Achinoam - Her name means "my brother's delight". She was lovely and social, everything that Mikal wasn't. But David's happiness wasn't to be found in this elegant social girl.

Abigail - Her name means "my father is rejoicing". Abigail was a faithful and spiritual woman, but still she wasn't right for David.

Maakah - Her name means "fondling woman" or "pet". She was caressing and tender. But again, she wasn't going to bring David happiness.

Haggith - Her name means "festal". She was the life of the party. A party girl. Fun, sexy, and exciting. The name is often used as an adjective to describe ancient belly dancers. She was HOT! While Maakah was caressing and sensuous, Haggith was hot and sensuous. But even she wasn't right for David.

Abital - Her name means, "dew" or "my father is dew". The connotations are very intimate. She and David had a very passionate love affair and she was always on the ready for him. He didn't have to take her to a dance, our caress her emotions to prompt her. She was always desiring of him. But even she wasn't the one who would make him happy.

Eglah - Her name means "heifer". lol She was perhaps a big woman. Motherly, tender, and definitely tended to David's "boo boos". But as with motherly types, odds are she also held significant control. David ultimately wasn't going to find happiness with her either.

Bathsheba - Her name means "daughter of an oath" or loosely translated "daughter of promise". David meets her while she's married to Uriah. Here's the reality... no man can add a day to his life. Uriah was destined to die soon. Had David talked to her and waited Uriah may have died on the battlefield and David would have had his "woman of promise". However, David failed the test of patience. David committed adultery with her and later David was the instrument that brought about Uriah's death, making David a murderer. In all David's past relationships he discovered what he was looking for wasn't enough to bring happiness. David had to depend on God and when God put her in front of him David couldn't wait for the promise. And even though David reaped the consequences for his sin... Bathsheba served to save Israel and serve as David's queen faithfully. It took David going through so many women to learn that those things wouldn't bring happiness and David had to learn to trust and wait on the Lord with Bathsheba, because getting ahead of God brings pain and heart ache.

The point is... situations, even if they bring sin, serve us well in that if we are attentive they can help make us all that we're supposed to be and bring us into God's perfect will.

Sin never has the jump on God... God can, and will, always turn it around if we give it to Him.

How on earth can one overcome and why even pursue the overcoming in the first place when God allowed the circumstances that planted the seeds for tremendous failure-- failure that seems perpetual, if not in word and action every time, in thoughts almost daily?

Muscle failure makes our bodies stronger. So too does spiritual failure. It shows you what you're made of. What you're weaknesses are. Who you really are without God's grace. It serves to cause us to have to come before God for his sovereign grace. It shows us we can't save ourselves and that we absolutely NEED Jesus. It shows us the areas WE have to guard. Religion often doesn't understand this. We become legalistic and performance oriented and instead of allowing sin and weakness to run it's course to teach us and make us stronger we judge based on performance. I know men who have committed grave sin in their lives and today they have some of the deepest most anointed relationships with God... many who never sunk to those depths have a shallow and performance driving relationship with God. They expect a "reward" for being so good... they missed the fact that it's not about their performance... it's about relationship.

I'd also like to mention something that I personally think is a myth... I don't believe in the idea that sin in the mind is actual "sin". Let's take lust for example. Jesus said,

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

First, Jesus said that whoever looks upon a woman "to lust after her". This means to look at a woman with the full intent of desire and access. This isn't admiring a beautiful woman. This isn't experience sexual attraction. This isn't feeling sexual feelings or thoughts. This isn't even sexual fantasy. Consider that in the Song of Solomon the unmarried lovers fantasize about each other in some very vivid ways.... and it wasn't sin. Jesus is talking about the seductive spirit that some men have. If you look at a woman and even fantasize about her... you've not sinned. But if you look at her and decide to pursue her, the moment you do you've committed adultery in your heart. Now, please note, Jesus didn't say, "hath committed adultery with her". Jesus said, "hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Jesus is showing that sin originates in the intents of the heart. He isn't saying that someone who does this has committed adultery, he's saying that they've committed it in thought and therefore this is where actual adultery originates. So please, I'd say don't feel condemned if you have normal sexual thoughts, interests, fantasies, or needs. If anyone feels these it is normal. We are men. God made us men. Religion would have us be Eunuchs. That isn't what Christ's point was.

How can I ever get to a place where I am pleasing God?

Be yourself sheltered in God's grace and love. Be yourself... all your victories and all your failures. God loves you... ALL OF YOU.

There are sins that have existed in my life (in thought or action) that persists, that come back, even after the most powerful experiences with God I've been blessed to know.

That's because you're human. Do you hate it? Good. Imagine how you'll feel the first day grace has completed it's work and you're glorified without sinful passions or interests! It will be the most joyful experience in your life! You'll want to dance, cry, praise, and love God in ways you'll never be able to love him on earth! You'll finally not know those sinful impulses and you'll experience the full freedom Christ planned for you since before the world began.

I'd trade the emotional highs of Pentecostal worship and unquestionable moves of God, for a life completely free from one or two sins that contradict every notion that I might be saved.

Why? Because you think God will love you more if you perform better? Not so brother. Pray for God to teach you out of those sins. Pray for God to show you what purpose they serve. God isn't on the edge of his seat hoping you'll make it.... he died to ENSURE that you will make it in spite of your sin.

I want to experience that kind of a move of God. I have in some areas, but not all.

I'm not sad, for real. I am just at my wits end in pursuing a life that reflects the Holy Ghost that I profess I have.

The Holy Ghost is the "Spirit of Grace" Rejoice. Your sin and struggles were already atoned for. The moment you turn to your performance... you let go of the cross.

Sin is like a terminal disease we all have. It will kill us. We have it in remission at times and show no symptoms. But then there are seasons when the disease flares up and we find symptoms showing all over. It reminds us that we are sick and need to continue treatment. We need to continue a daily does of prayer, the Holy Ghost, Bible reading, church attending, neighbor loving. Eventually those symptoms will subside again for a season. Don't be surprised when symptoms show again in the future. Treat it like a cough, runny nose, or herpes sore. When the symptom arises it reminds you that you're sick and need to see a doctor... Jesus.

It's about Jesus... not you. That's the good news.

[Aquila]

Also I'd like to add... we make everything a sin in our religion. Jesus summed it up...

Matthew 22:37-40
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

How do you express that love God with all your heart?

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols or bow down to them, nor serve them.
3. You shall not use the name of the Lord your God disrespectfully.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.

How do you express that you love your neighbor as yourself?

6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not lie about your neighbor.
10. You shall not lust for your neighbor's house, or his wife, or any
thing that is your neighbor's.

If you haven't broken one of these commandments today... you've gone through the day without sinning. These commandments best illustrate the principles Jesus revealed.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

Excellent post, those scriptures were exactly what came to mind as I read his post.

I think his question was why does God "allow" circumstances that "he knows" will lead one to sin. God doesn't purposefully create circumstances that cause us to sin... and yes we have free will. But God does "allow" circumstances that he knows a weak saint will sin in. Why does God allow it? I believe that it's because God has a plan. God always has a plan.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think his question was why does God "allow" circumstances that "he knows" will lead one to sin. God doesn't purposefully create circumstances that cause us to sin... and yes we have free will. But God does "allow" circumstances that he knows a weak saint will sin in. Why does God allow it? I believe that it's because God has a plan. God always has a plan.

Is this contradictory to the truth found in I Corinthians 10:13? According to that verse, God provides a way of escape (from temptation). That means if a person chooses to sin, it is in SPITE of the way of escape God provided for them. Ergo, there is no temptation that a saint, weak or otherwise, is helpless against. Whether God "allowed" the circumstance is irrelevant--He provided the escape--and if the person sins anyway, that just means he passed it right up.

I just don't see how we can pass the buck to God when we mess up. Even though He is all-powerful and all-knowing, He has chosen not to interfere with our free will. However, He still doesn't leave us helpless against the will of our flesh, but gives us a way to escape temptation. The scripture says God is faithful.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Is this contradictory to the truth found in I Corinthians 10:13? According to that verse, God provides a way of escape (from temptation). That means if a person chooses to sin, it is in SPITE of the way of escape God provided for them. Ergo, there is no temptation that a saint, weak or otherwise, is helpless against. Whether God "allowed" the circumstance is irrelevant--He provided the escape--and if the person sins anyway, that just means he passed it right up.

I just don't see how we can pass the buck to God when we mess up. Even though He is all-powerful and all-knowing, He has chosen not to interfere with our free will. However, He still doesn't leave us helpless against the will of our flesh, but gives us a way to escape temptation. The scripture says God is faithful.

I think you're not really understanding the question. The question was why does God "ALLOW" circumstances that he "knows" will lead to sin. Yes, we choose to take the escape or not. But God knows if we will or not. Yet God still allows the circumstance to be.

For example, the Garden of Eden. Yes... Adam and Eve could have chosen to escape by resisting the serpent. But God allowed the circumstance to be... and God knew they would sin. Why would God even allow it at all knowing they would sin?

The reason is because even sin works it's purpose in the plans of God. It reveals our nature and our weaknesses, reveals his nature, and gives us the force to resist to make us stronger.