Lot's Revelation of Grace - Page 4

OneAccord · #31 10-31-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Abram and his clan went to Egypt (rather than trust God during a famine), and there lied about his relationship with his wife (Genesis 12:10-20). He later went "up" out of Egypt and returned to the land (Genesis 13:1-4) to Bethel (house of God) and to the place of the altar where he had first called on God. However, he had amassed wealth/flocks/herds so the land was no longer able to sustain both him and Lot. They had to split up and Abram gave Lot first choice as to where he wanted to go. Lot looked at the well-watered plain and pitched his tent toward Sodom (Genesis 13:5-13). Later, we see that Lot was dwelling "in" Sodom (Genesis 14:12) and was carried off captive with others who dwelt there. In Genesis 19:1 we find that Lot sat in the gate of Sodom so he must have had a position of authority and respect there. One neat thing (to me anyway) is that Lot was spared because of Abram's prayers (Genesis 19:29).

Lot is a good example of the grace of God. The Apostle Peter calls him a righteous man (2 Peter 2:6-9) and refers to him as "just" and also "godly." He was not perfect but he was one of God's saints.

Yes and it was from the separation of Abraham and Lot that we find these immortal words: " Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, ... for we [be] brethren." Gen 13:8

rrford · #32 10-31-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

You are no different from the rest of us if I remember your history correctly. I was one of the ones you have personally attacked on many occasions...but I forgive you.

Blessings, Rhoni

Actually, in the name of being fair, there were indeed times I responded to your comments with what appeared to be an attack.

But "like the rest of us?" I think not. Sorry. Look through all of my posts on any Foruma nd you will find very few that are ever in an "attacking" mode. Sorry. It just isn't there.

BTW, perspective is interesting and forgiveness is a two-way street. Please don't be so quick to comment about it in such way that makes it seem as if you have not needed any regarding some of your posts.

rrford · #33 10-31-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Yes and it was from the separation of Abraham and Lot that we find these immortal words: " Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, ... for we [be] brethren." Gen 13:8

And what we find is the wisdom of an elder and the youthful selfishness of the young. Lot should never have agreed to choose. He should have humbled himself and realized he was a tag-a-long and had no right to make such a choice. IMO, he should have been contented with what Abram was willing to give him.

notofworks · #34 10-31-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

Actually, in the name of being fair, there were indeed times I responded to your comments with what appeared to be an attack.

But "like the rest of us?" I think not. Sorry. Look through all of my posts on any Foruma nd you will find very few that are ever in an "attacking" mode. Sorry. It just isn't there.

BTW, perspective is interesting and forgiveness is a two-way street. Please don't be so quick to comment about it in such way that makes it seem as if you have not needed any regarding some of your posts.

Rhoni can fight for herself, but.....you're, "like the rest of us, I think not"?

Wow. Pray for us, brother, so we can get up to your level.

jfrog · #35 10-31-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

And what we find is the wisdom of an elder and the youthful selfishness of the young. Lot should never have agreed to choose. He should have humbled himself and realized he was a tag-a-long and had no right to make such a choice. IMO, he should have been contented with what Abram was willing to give him.

The reason I critique messages is often because way to much is read into a story from scripture. It's a pet peeve of mine to emphasize the parts of a story that make our point and leave out the other parts that do not.

rrford · #36 10-31-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Rhoni can fight for herself, but.....you're, "like the rest of us, I think not"?

Wow. Pray for us, brother, so we can get up to your level.

Sorry. I think you missed the point. None of us are really like the rest of us.

rrford · #37 10-31-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

The reason I critique messages is often because way to much is read into a story from scripture. It's a pet peeve of mine to emphasize the parts of a story that make our point and leave out the other parts that do not.

I can understand that. But I also realize that preaching and teaching requires focusing on parts of a text or story and not it's entirety. However, that does not mean one should use the text to support a premise that the entirety of the passafe would negate.

Sam · #38 10-31-2009, 01:19 PM

Romans 6:23 says that “the wages (what we earn or deserve) is death, BUT the gift of God (a gift freely given) is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. I have a note in my Bible here which is a quote by the late John R.Rice which says, “If you go to hell, you pay your own way; but you go to heaven on a free pass."

Romans 4:1-5 describes this difference between what we deserve and what we can receive;
1-3 So how do we fit what we know of Abraham, our first father in the faith, into this new way of looking at things? If Abraham, by what he did for God, got God to approve him, he could certainly have taken credit for it. But the story we're given is a God-story, not an Abraham-story. What we read in Scripture is, "Abraham entered into what God was doing for him, and that was the turning point. He trusted God to set him right instead of trying to be right on his own."
4-5 If you're a hard worker and do a good job, you deserve your pay; we don't call your wages a gift. But if you see that the job is too big for you, that it's something only God can do, and you trust him to do it—you could never do it for yourself no matter how hard and long you worked—well, that trusting-him-to-do-it is what gets you set right with God, by God. Sheer gift.

rgcraig · #39 10-31-2009, 01:21 PM

I believe Rhoni was meaning - "he without sin throw the first stone" which rrford had already stated that he regreted some of his posts.

Let's move along from this and keep the discussion going on grace.

jfrog · #40 10-31-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

I can understand that. But I also realize that preaching and teaching requires focusing on parts of a text or story and not it's entirety. However, that does not mean one should use the text to support a premise that the entirety of the passafe would negate.

Maybe, or maybe the story's shouldn't really be used to illustrate such straightforward concepts. Grace is unmerited favor and we all profess God has given us that. But, we also should want to be pleasing to God and this is clear from scripture also. I don't really see why most scriptural concepts require a story that may have other implications to illustrate them.