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  #41  
Old 11-02-2009, 03:07 PM
shag shag is offline
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Re: Lets talk about House Churches

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Originally Posted by Apocrypha View Post
Oh sorry

Ya they are both by www.house2house.net
no prob bruthu!
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  #42  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:53 PM
shag shag is offline
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Re: Lets talk about House Churches

If one were to ask a person that attends a somewhat large assembly what it means to successfully make a disciple of a person, and then ask a person that attends a house church the same, I wonder how much different, if any, there answers would be.


I feel many in the leadership of most larger assemblies(probably 250-1000) measure success by how many folks bring to church, and how many they baptise, much more than how many are retained. It seems its chalked up to "we sow, and water is our part, and let God have it". Many arent retained, IMO, because theres little follow up developing genuine relationships with the new convert....Its hard enough to just make it to "the house of God" 3X a week, work a 40-60 hr job, and yet still be able to spend time with the family. So many think just let the man of God preach to reach, thats what we pay him for, and he has more time anyway, cause its his job. The pastors and the people think,'Let the saints get'm here, and I'll preach and reach, and gett'm born again", and thats considered "successful discipleship". I feel its primarily the fault of the "system" or "structure" of things, more that any individual's.

I'll share this story, its sorta relevant. There was a young man that started going to the church I attended last year for a few weeks. He also started to come to our home bible studies for a while, athetic guy, golden glove boxer. There was about 10 attending. He shortly-later quit coming to the reg. church, but kept coming to our home gatherings/studies. A short time later, we canceled our studies for a conflicting schedule, and then 1 cancelation became 2 ...and so on. Stopped permanently. I saw this guy in town a couple of times and talked to him a little, but I never spent time with him personally to build a relationship, or continue bible studies.
About 3-4 months ago, I found out thru his girlfriend's family, they had had moved to a big city, and he got shot and killed because he was involved with drug running. His blood is somewhat on my hands in my book. I sincerely believe if I would have put more into reaching this guy, I really believe I could have reached him. That haunts me, and I want it to haunt me. I dont want to forget it, so it doesn't happen again. I feel that house church would've been good for this guy, in, that he felt more comfortable it seems gathering in a home with others, layed back setting, being able to express his thoughts and also learn things pertaining to life, God, and His word.

I have been to soul winners boot camp florida 3-4X, involved in the events and ideas to reach and many are good, Ive used them. But I feel the best tool to reach someone is relationship. To befriend someone, show them the love of Christ, developing a relationship with them while trying to let God minister thru us. Many folks come and go to big church building services, and slip thru the cracks, because we dont have a relationship with them, and they never establish a relationship with God, grown into becoming a disciple that knows the voice of the Father. I feel that a small setting weekly, being involved in eachothers lives making and developing a genuine disciple, that is able to hear and obey God, is a more realistic goal and accomplishment, with a small gathering, than a large one that gathers 2-3 times a week and limits more time available to gather as a small intimate family.

However or whatever we can most efficeintly reach/make a genuine disciple, which in my opinion only starts with reaching, and is getting them to an established relationship with God, is what we need to do. I feel the method of the "old paths-house church" could better bring this goal to pass, as apposed to a large setting. That doesnt mean I think a large setting wont reach and retain, but rather just not as effieciently(IMHO).



(Man I wish I could type faster, it took me forever to do that with only my index fingers...if I can just ever get time to use that typing cd...lol).
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As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14

Last edited by shag; 11-02-2009 at 07:52 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-02-2009, 07:25 PM
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Re: Lets talk about House Churches

It was a good post Shag
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2009, 08:55 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Lets talk about House Churches

Here's an interesting article I had read. I wanted to share it here and see if anyone would like to share their thoughts on it. It really convicted me.

================================================== ==


THE HOUSE CHURCH
AND PARACHURCH
ORGANIZATIONS

Since the first use of the word church (Gk. ekklesia) in Acts is found here (2:47), we pause to consider the centrality of the church in the thinking of the early Christians.

The church in the Book of Acts and in the rest of the NT was what is often called a house church. The early Christians met in houses rather than in special ecclesiastical buildings. It has been said that religion was loosed from specially sacred places and centered in that universal place of living, the home. Unger says that homes continued to serve as places of Christian assembly for two centuries.

It might be easy for us to think that the use of private homes was forced by economic necessity rather than being the result of spiritual considerations. We have become so accustomed to church buildings and chapels that we think they are God’s ideal.

However, there I strong reason to believe that the first century believers might have been wiser than we are.

First, it is inconsistent with the Christian faith and its emphasis on love to spend thousands of dollars on luxurious buildings when there is such appalling needed throughout the world. In that connection, E. Stanley Jones wrote:

I looked on the Bambino, the child Christ in the Cathedral at Rome, laden with expensive jewels, and then walked out and looked upon the countenances of hungry children and wondered whether Christ, in view of this hunger, was enjoying His jewels, and the thought persisted that if He was, then I could no longer enjoy the thought of Christ. That bejeweled Bambino and the hunger children are a symbol of what we have done in putting around Christ the expensive livery of stately cathedral sand churches while leaving untouched the fundamental wrongs in human society whereby Christ is left hungry in the unemployed and the disposed.

Not only is it inhumane; it is also uneconomical to spend money on expensive buildings that are used for no more than three, four, or five hours during the week. How have we ever allowed ourselves to drift into this unthinking dream world where we are willing to spend so much in order to get so little usage in return?

Our modern building programs have been one of the biggest hindrances to the expansion of the church. Heavy payments on principle and interest cause church leaders to resist any efforts to hive off and form new churches. Any loss of members would jeopardize the income needed to pay for the building and its upkeep. An unborn generation is saddled with debt, and any hope of church reproduction is stifled.

It is often argued that we must have impressive buildings in order to attract the unchurched to our services. Aside from being a carnal way of thinking, this completely overlooks the NT pattern. The meetings of the early church were largely for believers. The Christians assembled for the apostles’ teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayer (Acts 2:42). The did not do their evangelizing by inviting people to meetings on Sunday but by witnessing to those with whom they came in contact throughout the week. When people did get converted, they were then brought into the fellowship and warmth of the house church to be fed and encouraged.

It is sometimes difficult to get people to attend services in dignified church buildings. There is a strong reaction against formalism. Also there is a fear of being solicited for funds. “All the church wants is your money,” is a common complaint. Yet many of these same people are willing to attend a conversational Bible class in a home. There they do not have to be style-conscious, and they enjoy the informal, unprofessional atmosphere.

Actually the house church is ideal for every culture and every country. And probably of we could look over the entire world, we would see more churches meeting in homes than in any other way.

In contrast to today’s imposing cathedrals, churches, and chapels – as well as a whole host of highly organized denominations, the apostles in the Book of Acts made no attempt to form an organization of any kind for carrying on the work of the Lord. The local church was God’s unit on earth for propagating the faith and the disciples were content to work within that context.

In recent years there has been an organizational explosion in Christendom of such proportions as to make one dizzy. Every time a believer gets a new idea for advancing the cause of Christ, he forms a new mission board, corporations, or institution!

One result is that capable teachers and preachers have been called away from their primary ministries in order to become administrators. If all mission board administrators were serving on the mission field, it would greatly reduce the need for personnel there.

Another result of the proliferation of organizations is that vast sums of money are needed for overhead, and thus diverted from direct gospel outreach. The greater part of every dollar given to many Christian organizations is devoted to the expense of maintaining the organization rather than the primary purpose for which it was founded.

Organizations often hinder the fulfillment of the Great Commission. Jesus told His disciples to teach all the things He had commanded. Many who work for Christian organizations find they are not permitted to teach all the truth of God. They must no teach certain controversial matters for fear they will alienate the constituency to whom they look for financial support.

The multiplication of Christian institutions has too often resulted in factions, jealousy, and rivalry that have done great harm to the testimony of Christ.

Consider the overlapping multiplicity of Christian organizations at work, at home, and abroad. Each competes for limited personnel and for shrinking financial resources. And consider how many of these organizations really owe their origin to purely human rivalry, though public statements usually refer to God’s will (Daily Notes of the Scripture Union).

And it is often true that organizations have a way of perpetuating themselves long after they have outlived their usefulness. The wheels grind on heavily even though the vision of the founders has been lost, and the glory of the once dynamic movement has departed. It was spiritual wisdom, not primitive naiveté, that saved the early Christians from setting up human organizations to carry on the work of the Lord. G. H. Lang writes:

An acute writer, contrasting the apostolic work with the more usual modern missionary methods, has said that “we found missions, the apostles founded churches.” The distinction is sound and pregnant. The apostles founded churches, and the founded nothing else, because for the ends in view nothing else was required or could have been so suitable. In each place where they labored they formed the converts into a local assembly, with elders – always elders, never an elder (Acts 14:23; 15:6, 23; 20:17; Phil. 1:1) – to guide, to rule, to shepherd, men qualified by the Lord and recognized by the saints (I Cor. 16:15; I Thess. 5:12, 13; I Tim. 5:17-19); and with deacons, appointed by the assembly (Acts 6:1-6; Phil 1:1) – in this contrasted with the elders – to attend to the few but very important temporal affairs, and in particular to the distribution of the funds of the assembly….All they (the apostles) did in the way of organizing was to form the disciples gathered into other such assemblies. No other organization than the local assembly appears in the New Testament, nor do we find even the germ of anything further.

To the early Christians and their apostolic leadership, the congregation was the divinely ordained unit on earth through which God chose to work, and they only such unit to which He promised perpetuity was the church.

Believer’s Bible Commentary, Pgs. 1590-1591

Last edited by Aquila; 11-02-2009 at 09:20 PM.
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  #45  
Old 11-02-2009, 11:10 PM
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commonsense commonsense is offline
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Re: Lets talk about House Churches

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Originally Posted by Apocrypha View Post
It was a good post Shag
I agree.

House churches certainly have potential for the future.
Many in America have tuned out conventional churches.
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:27 AM
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Re: Lets talk about House Churches

Excellent post Shaq.

House church turns all we've ever known on it's head.

In a house church most all of the time is focused on individuals rather than the group.
In a house church the most exciting thing that can happen is a church split. (After you get 20 or so people that becomes too much to meet in each others home and you send a bishop among you with a few of your best families to start another group) It isn't a split though.... it is a multiplication.
In a house church people don't give to a corporate body. But to individuals as needs arise.


And the list goes on.
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  #47  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:43 AM
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Re: Lets talk about House Churches

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I am not a proponent of huge churches, but the closeness some of you have described in "house church" can still, and must be, nourished in small churches. As pastor of a small church (70-100), I used to think it must be nice to pastor a huge one. Now, I think once a church reaches a certain size (not always the same size!) they should start another work in a nearby location.
Honestly... and IMO...

If a church runs 20... or 200... or 2000...

The people within that congregation are going to have a core group of friends who they are intimately close to and spend time with of about 20 or so.

No matter how big we, as men, build our kingdoms Gods plan always remains intact within those confines.
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