TFT is the father and this happend in the 70's. I was there. it happned at my home church in Louisiana.
the pulpit busting event happened in Houston at Richard Heard's church if memory serves and this happend in the late 90's early 2000's...
Two very different happenings.
I didn't even realize this the alter splitting incident was that recent. I don't suppose there are any photos of the aftermath of this? Or audio recording of it as it happened?
I wouldn't mind hearing the recording of the incident myself. It is talked about a bit in God Chasers. I heard from someone about it happening before I read the book.
The reasons and implications are up to interpretation. lol.
I sat in church just the other night and thought - I wish I could just turn my brain OFF. I wish I could just accept everything I've been taught, and just live happily with that. It would be so much EASIER. I hate rocking boats. I like to fly under the radar and not be noticed.
And you can feel like you're going CRAZY with all the voices in your head. On one side, there's the scriptures and what they DON'T say. And on the other side, there's the voice telling you that you're being deceived and you're going to fry in hell.
Adding to this is the fact that we have a teen son who is really resisting church right now. What in the world is the right path to take at this time??? Would following and acting upon what we believe the Bible teaches right now make this situation worse, or better?
I really feel like I'm going nuts sometimes.
And I'm probably sharing too much personal stuff, but... oh, well. I'm feeling a little desperate.
The scripture below has been my anchor in my pursuit of God, to know Him as He really is, he will not reject the heart that is turned toward Him. Perfect love casts out FEAR, fear is a lie made to appear as a fact. Walk in faith, with you heart tuned toward Him, He will never leave you or forsake you. Gods love, grace and mercy is so much greater than we can even imagine.
9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[a] a fish, will give him a snake instead?
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Now, on the flip side of that coin, let me also say this..........
I have friends who won't wear a pair of pants, cut their hair or many others things. Their reason for living that way is not because they believe that doing so will keep them out of heaven. They don't believe that at all. What they do believe is that when they dress that way, or refuse to go to certain places, etc., they are being pleasing to God. They're doing this out of their LOVE for Him and their desire to please Him. That is a whole different thing than to abstain from something out of FEAR that God will punish them eternally for doing it.
If I knew that letting my hair grow would please my husband, I would do it in a heartbeat. It's the same thing. If I believed that God would care one iota about how long my hair is, (or if I'm wearing pants, etc.), then I would do that in a heartbeat. Never a question asked. I don't think God cares about that FOR ME. If YOU think He cares what YOU wear, then you have to go according to what your heart is telling you. Maybe you think God thinks you are prettier with long hair? I don't know. honestly. But if you think it is pleasing to God for you to do something, than by all means do it.
On the other hand, if you think that Jesus' death on the cross was only the deposit on your salvation, and that you have to continue to add to the account by dressing a certain way, then you've made what Jesus did a farce.
Very well said, Margie.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
I have been in this probably longer than anyone on here. I am probably considered middle of the road. I'm neither liberal nor Ultracon, always been that way. My wife and I have talked about this very thing about afraid. What does God really desire of us? I set in a service where the music is deafening and people are jumping and running and slinging their arms and the preacher is screaming in the mike and I can't understand anything he says and I feel nothing. I go away depressed and wishing I hadn't even gone to church. Then I go to a service where there are peaceful songs that I'm familiar with and I can understand the message and go away blessed. I get so confused.
When we consistently were in worst shape after the Sunday night service, we decided that we needed to seek God in a different way.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Haven't read the entire thread, though I know there have been some good thoughts put forth. If I say something that someone else is already said, just look over me. But I can relate to what the original poster said. The question I have to ask is this: Do we serve God out of fear... or out of love? I can remember a time when I served him out of fear. I was so afraid of making God angry. I think this came from sitting under a ministry that painted God as some tough Master who was just waiting for an excuse to strike me down for some petty infraction and send my soul to a burning, tortourous hellfire to spend all of eternity forever separated from Him. In short, I was afraid of God.
That fear of God actually drove me from Him. During those fearful years, my Christian experience was so shaky. So, I turned from God and spent several years away from Him.
While away from the Lord, I spent a lot of time studying the Word. Actually, I think I spent more time studying the Word while I was out of church than I did while I was in church. And I came to see God in a different light. I came to see Him as a Father leaning on a fence, anxiously awaiting the return of his wayward son. I saw Him as a loving and compassionate Father who cares for His own, even those who stray from Him. And, I think I learned to love Him, and to serve Him out of love rather than fear.
This verse helped me to change my mindset: Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. We seek to please God because we love Him, not because we fear (are afraid of) Him. We diligently seek Him, not because we are fraid of what might happen if we don't, but do so, because we really want to know Him.
What does it take to please God? I don't know...the Bible is full of things that please the Lord. Thats where faith comes in. I try to use faith to determine what it is that pleases God- and do my best to do that which pleases Him. Always successful? Hardly. But, I try and I think thats what pleases Him the most. I try, I fail, I cry out to Him, and He helps. That, IMO, pleases the Lord- when I come to the realization that I can't make it without Him. And He doesn't expect me to, nor does He want me to. I'll always need Him because He is always there and thats why I love Him.
Beautiful!!!!
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Wow. I appreciate you sharing this. I think I can relate to your experiences quite well. I too was brought up with special speakers who were “professors” on Christian Rock, Hard Rock, and Heavy Metal. One in particular presented slide shows with reflections and images of a demon looking out from the screen of a television set, (supposedly after the power had been turned off) and records that played demonic messages in reverse. Fear. The only literature promoted for the young people back then, was “Turmoil in the Toy Box,” the Bible, or whatever else speakers happened to mention as good Christian reads. Of course, when one particular evangelist mentioned that he liked Louis LÁmour, (it was part of his sermon) he told the story apologetically, as if reading Westerns was borderline sinful.
I also remember our youth group watching a film on the rapture. We were discouraged from watching even Disney films, but somehow, this film made the cut. I remember the fear. Kids were writhing on the floor, wailing and weeping. “Don’t leave us behind!” “Don’t send us to hell God!” Then there was youth camp. Looking back now, it seemed like indoctrination designed exclusively for the youth. There was always an expectation for that one night of “fear fest.” Experiences and stories of youth dying in horrible car wrecks after rejecting the pleading preacher to pray or leaving service during alter call. Fear. I don’t wish to portray that part of my childhood as all bad, but those are the emotions and feelings that I remember the most from those days.
My decision to attend college thrilled my parents, but in the culture of our church, it was something that had to be done with a great deal of caution, as if I might not make it out believing in God anymore. Fear. I brought home questions about evolution to an elder in our church (he worked as a scientist). I can recall him rebuking me for engaging in debates, when I should have been a “good soldier,” teaching more bible studies instead. At that point, I began to reject the fear and pressure to “do what your told,” and began to search out truth for myself. I can’t believe that God enjoyed this environment, which led to such an unbalanced perception of him, and life in general. In some ways I think I have become hardened inside. I’m not sure, but I know I don’t want that for my (future) children.
To be fair, I will say that I did have good times. I was born again in this assembly. I met and married my wife. I gained a great deal of knowledge about God’s word. But the constant, even up until my wife and I decided to quit attending, was fear. Fear if we left “The Ship.” Fear that if we left, or thought for ourselves, we were somehow rejecting God’s will for our lives. Fear…
D4T, did you start this thread around (10-31-09) intentionally? I never did like Halloween…
One of my favorites: “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” 2 Timothy 1:7.
This actually could be considered "child abuse", because that is exactly what it was! Thankful God looks out for us, so that these scars don't have to be forever!!!
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
This actually could be considered "child abuse", because that is exactly what it was! Thankful God looks out for us, so that these scars don't have to be forever!!!
I am SO thankful that my children haven't been instilled with a fear of the Tribulation like I was. I was literally terrified. My younger brother couldn't even sleep some nights for fear of it.
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