>>>"It's All Just a Game."

[PreacherV]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

As I've always said, I have nary a problem with the overwhelming majority of standards. My problem is with the presentation.

My sentiments exactly...

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Of course you're right.

I was one of those who "bought into" the extreme aspects.

As I've always said, I have nary a problem with the overwhelming majority of standards. My problem is with the presentation.

I'm just curious.... how would you feel about the standards if your wife and daughters HATED them?

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I'm just curious.... how would you feel about the standards if your wife and daughters HATED them?

Or if God was displeased with them? I can think of a few that flat out call Jesus a hippie and a wino. And to boot, many tendencies that result as a consequence of these so called "standards" are in direct opposition to the ultimate true Christian standard set forth by our Lord as mentioned in Mark 12:31. Now that is a standard. It is based on a moral truth, and can be applied fairly by everyone, to everyone.

And I will add, as Baron once adequately pointed out, part of the problem is defining certain beliefs as standards. Standards of what? Righteousness? Truth? According to the manner in which some apply them, I have a notion to call them standards of silliness. They should be presented as preferences and opinions, nothing more.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

"It's all just a game."

That's what a preacher told me, fifteen years ago, immediately after turning in his license with the UPC, and walking away from Oneness Pentecostalism for good.

At the time I thought he must just be bitter over something, and that maybe he was looking to justify a desire to "go Charismatic." After all, why would someone just up and walk away, after being raised in this his whole life, pastoring for decades, and raising his kids in this way? It just didn't seem right, and I was sure he was just plain bitter and backslidden.

Over time, I watched him sever all ties with this way, walking away from every friend and association he previously held dear. It bothered me. After all, if a seasoned minister was succeptible to this sort of radical change, could I fall prey to the pull of gradualism, as well?

As a twenty-something, I listened as my contemporaries spoke of him with contempt.

"Compromiser."

"Backslider."

"Charismatic."

"Liberal."

To my knowledge, not one of them had ever spoken with him about his decision, what led him to leave, and why he considered this way a game. Still, I listened to them, and assumed their assessment must be right.
__________________________________________________

Years passed, and I didn't see or hear from the fallen minister at all. You know how it works. Over time, he was forgotten. Written off. It was as if he had fallen off the face of the earth. Not even worthy of discussion unless someone was preaching a "Trophies of Hell" message.

And as fifteen years have flown by, I've watched the guys who viciously maligned this man follow the same road he travelled.

The reasons they walked away were varied, but all who left spoke with one voice. "It's just a game!"

And now I have been around long enough to understand what they meant.

When a man is serious about his relationship with God, and is passionate about knowing Truth, he searches everything out, questioning everything he's been taught with the goal of defending, strengthening and teaching that which he has been given.

Along the way, in Oneness Pentecostalism, he is apt to find numerous inconsistencies and hypocricies. This is the case in most every religion, and I understand well that we are not alone in duplicity.

However, at a certain age, men start to realize that there is probably less life ahead of them than behind them. The scale of life starts to tip, and eternity comes into full view. At this point, Truth becomes paramount, and ministries are reconfigured to reveal "necessary things" with no regard for fluff.

When this sort of rebirth occurs, one can find oneself on the outside looking in, a pariah to those with whom he found comfort and sanctuary in times past. At this point, he is confronted with a harsh reality. He is forced to prove what he values most - friendships, or Truth.

If he is honest with himself and God, and relinquishes doctrines of men, he will lose everything familiar. If he squelches inner truth, he will survive in his organization, and maintain acceptance within his social circle - at the expense of a good conscience.

And all the while he struggles inwardly, he is confronted with published doctrines that many trumpet, but few live by. He is faced with the glaring inconsistencies of decades-old standards that are loosely maintained through peer pressure and legalistic control. He begins to realize that his life is more about presentation than relationship, conformity than Truth and acceptance than Christ-following.

At this point, he realizes that this way can become a game, the goal of which is to restrain oneself, swallowing all of the inconsistencies and denying much of what you have discovered in the Word that turns previously held beliefs on their head.

All to maintain peace with, and respect amongst, peers.

Well said EA. Thanks for posting this.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I'm just curious.... how would you feel about the standards if your wife and daughters HATED them?

I really am curious about this. It seems that a lot of people who have no problem with the standards, but don't believe they're salvific, are also surrounded by people who like the lifestyle. But, what if you have some people under your authority who really, really, really dislike the lifestyle? That's when we have a train wreck. That's when things get really complicated and difficult.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I really am curious about this. It seems that a lot of people who have no problem with the standards, but don't believe they're salvific, are also surrounded by people who like the lifestyle. But, what if you have some people under your authority who really, really, really dislike the lifestyle? That's when we have a train wreck. That's when things get really complicated and difficult.

That's when the focus should be on the weightier matters, the focus on outward appearance is so minuscule, in comparison to the greater focus of scripture. Jesus' focus was on the heart, "that man cannot see". A causal review of the gospels, shows His focus and His continual rebuke of the religious leaders in their abuse of the common folk.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

"It's all just a game."

That's what a preacher told me, fifteen years ago, immediately after turning in his license with the UPC, and walking away from Oneness Pentecostalism for good.

At the time I thought he must just be bitter over something, and that maybe he was looking to justify a desire to "go Charismatic." After all, why would someone just up and walk away, after being raised in this his whole life, pastoring for decades, and raising his kids in this way? It just didn't seem right, and I was sure he was just plain bitter and backslidden.

Over time, I watched him sever all ties with this way, walking away from every friend and association he previously held dear. It bothered me. After all, if a seasoned minister was succeptible to this sort of radical change, could I fall prey to the pull of gradualism, as well?

As a twenty-something, I listened as my contemporaries spoke of him with contempt.

"Compromiser."

"Backslider."

"Charismatic."

"Liberal."

To my knowledge, not one of them had ever spoken with him about his decision, what led him to leave, and why he considered this way a game. Still, I listened to them, and assumed their assessment must be right.
__________________________________________________

Years passed, and I didn't see or hear from the fallen minister at all. You know how it works. Over time, he was forgotten. Written off. It was as if he had fallen off the face of the earth. Not even worthy of discussion unless someone was preaching a "Trophies of Hell" message.

And as fifteen years have flown by, I've watched the guys who viciously maligned this man follow the same road he travelled.

The reasons they walked away were varied, but all who left spoke with one voice. "It's just a game!"

And now I have been around long enough to understand what they meant.

When a man is serious about his relationship with God, and is passionate about knowing Truth, he searches everything out, questioning everything he's been taught with the goal of defending, strengthening and teaching that which he has been given.

Along the way, in Oneness Pentecostalism, he is apt to find numerous inconsistencies and hypocricies. This is the case in most every religion, and I understand well that we are not alone in duplicity.

However, at a certain age, men start to realize that there is probably less life ahead of them than behind them. The scale of life starts to tip, and eternity comes into full view. At this point, Truth becomes paramount, and ministries are reconfigured to reveal "necessary things" with no regard for fluff.

When this sort of rebirth occurs, one can find oneself on the outside looking in, a pariah to those with whom he found comfort and sanctuary in times past. At this point, he is confronted with a harsh reality. He is forced to prove what he values most - friendships, or Truth.

If he is honest with himself and God, and relinquishes doctrines of men, he will lose everything familiar. If he squelches inner truth, he will survive in his organization, and maintain acceptance within his social circle - at the expense of a good conscience.

And all the while he struggles inwardly, he is confronted with published doctrines that many trumpet, but few live by. He is faced with the glaring inconsistencies of decades-old standards that are loosely maintained through peer pressure and legalistic control. He begins to realize that his life is more about presentation than relationship, conformity than Truth and acceptance than Christ-following.

At this point, he realizes that this way can become a game, the goal of which is to restrain oneself, swallowing all of the inconsistencies and denying much of what you have discovered in the Word that turns previously held beliefs on their head.

All to maintain peace with, and respect amongst, peers.

Best post of 2010.
I found myself in these words.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Best post of 2010.
I found myself in these words.

Jeff, my feelings exactly! ED, you're words flowed and hit strait to the heart! Thanks for taking the time to share what so many feel, but might be afraid to say!

NFS

[EA]

Originally Posted by DAII

I have always appreciated your candor and adept way at expressing things ...

and value our many conversations ....

This is one of your best ....

There comes a time when we must assess which regrets we are willing to live and die with ...

I think that's a good way to put it.

Sadly, some Christians are mortally wounded in nonsensical culture wars, never living to realize that they could've served God without the fight.

Some, like Saul of Tarsus, are so busy fighting a "righteous" war, believing they are protecting the things of God. Imagine their disgust when they eventually realize - after wasted years - that all of their religious zeal is misplaced, and that they've spent a lifetime FIGHTING truth, instead of fighting FOR truth.

When that realization hits home, it's demoralizing. That's why so many wind up leaving sound doctrine, as well as unbiblical standards. They expended an entire youth fighting for both elements, and cannot separate one from the other.

[The Mrs]

Excellent & thought-provoking EA!