The Biblical response to ACTS 2:38 - Page 4

freeatlast · #31 01-26-2010, 04:03 PM

Love ya Bishop...but I gotta go to dinner ;-)

bishoph · #32 01-26-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Love ya Bishop...but I gotta go to dinner ;-)

Love you as well.....have a great dinner!

BeenThinkin · #33 01-26-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

I love it when someone uses this scripture!!!!! Notice, "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good." here the Apostle Paul makes it very clear that there is "the manifestation" of "the spirit" that is given for the common good. In other words every believer will receive the same manifestation of the spirit. He then goes on to describe that after one has received the spirit (with the same manifestation as everyone else) that there are diverse giftings that are the result of one receiving the spirit. Many different gifts and different administration of those gifts.....one spirit and one common manifestation of that one spirit....with diverse gifts and operations as a result of having the one spirit.

Bishoph, where did it say in this discourse that everyone received the same manifestation of the spirit?

“7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

To one....
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;

To another....
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

To another....
9 To another faith by the same Spirit;

To another....
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

To another....
10 To another the working of miracles;

To another....
to another prophecy;

To another....
to another discerning of spirits;

To another....
to another divers kinds of tongues;

To another....
to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.” 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, KJV.

I didn't see the wording "the gifting." It seems that all of the nine statements are statements of a manifestation of that self same spirit, that were divided to every man severally as he will.

I am sorry that you disagree with me but I'm not mad about it...not even offended.

Have you ever considered that every person that posts on AFF thinks he or she is right?

BeenThinkin

Praxeas · #34 01-26-2010, 04:17 PM

BTW in Acts it never says they receive the gift of tongues,

It just says they began to speak with other tongues

bishoph · #35 01-26-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Bishoph, where did it say in this discourse that everyone received the same manifestation of the spirit?

“7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

To one....
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;

To another....
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

To another....
9 To another faith by the same Spirit;

To another....
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

To another....
10 To another the working of miracles;

To another....
to another prophecy;

To another....
to another discerning of spirits;

To another....
to another divers kinds of tongues;

To another....
to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.” 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, KJV.

I didn't see the wording "the gifting." It seems that all of the nine statements are statements of a manifestation of that self same spirit, that were divided to every man severally as he will.

I am sorry that you disagree with me but I'm not mad about it...not even offended.

Have you ever considered that every person that posts on AFF thinks he or she is right?

BeenThinkin

Certainly! many people believe they are right. however, I have always been willing to change my opinion if it is not in alignment with scripture. However, in these scriptures I cannot see how one can arrive at the conclusion that you, freeatlast, and others have. (BTW I'm not mad in the least)

Notice that in verse 7....the apostle say that "to EVERY man is given THE manifestation of the spirit." It does not say manifestations but rather THE manifestation (singular). Then in the subsequent verses he speaks as to the various gifts that are given. To one is given, and to another, and to another....etc. All of those gifts come as a result of having the spirit, and there is a singular manifestation of having received that spirit. The Apostle even declares that this one manifestation is for the common good. Think about it.....if every person could have a different manifestation (proof) of having received the Spirit, then we as humans would begin to justify any and every thing as the manifestation and all truth would be subject to private interpretation. However, if there is one single marker/indicator/manifestation it would be for the "common good" of all believers, because there would be no confusion.

Sam · #36 01-26-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

...
I agree that Acts 2:38 tells us what 'Must" happen! However, the historical evidence in the rest of the book tells us "how" that "must" was fulfilled. In all but one case that any received the Holy Ghost, it was evidenced specifically by speaking with tongues, and IMHO it is easy to deduct from all of the other instances that the Samaritan's experience was the same.
...
.

There are about (don't remember the actual number right now) 20 accounts of conversion/salvation in the Book of Acts and several times it is recorded that the experience was followed by water and/or Spirit baptism.

BeenThinkin · #37 01-26-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

Certainly! many people believe they are right. however, I have always been willing to change my opinion if it is not in alignment with scripture. However, in these scriptures I cannot see how one can arrive at the conclusion that you, freeatlast, and others have. (BTW I'm not mad in the least)

Notice that in verse 7....the apostle say that "to EVERY man is given THE manifestation of the spirit." It does not say manifestations but rather THE manifestation (singular). Then in the subsequent verses he speaks as to the various gifts that are given. To one is given, and to another, and to another....etc. All of those gifts come as a result of having the spirit, and there is a singular manifestation (which one, singular, are you talking about) of having received that spirit. The Apostle even declares that this one manifestation is for the common good. Think about it.....if every person could have a different manifestation (proof) of having received the Spirit, then we as humans would begin to justify any and every thing as the manifestation and all truth would be subject to private interpretation. However, if there is one single marker/indicator/manifestation it would be for the "common good" of all believers, because there would be no confusion.

To one is given.... and that is singular. To another is given .... and again it is a single gift.

How is it we can demand, beg, plead, seek, tarry for "A GIFT!" Doesn't it seem practical that if it is a gift God will do as the scripture said ........ 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.” 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, KJV.

And why did Paul ask "do all speak with tongues." And I know the pat answer, but tell me where is there a list of different tongues?

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not against the principle of speaking with tongues. I just do not believe that the Bible bears out that you have to beg for a gift that was promised as a gift and that you're not saved until you have talked in tongues. We can't give ourselves tongues (although there are those who can speak on demand) and I feel like we have done the gospel an injustice to establish a order of begging for a gift. If you obey Him he will give you any gift He has for you. And no where do I read that we are commanded to get the tongue talking.

I do believe this....

“31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:31, KJV.

“13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
1 John 5:13, KJV.

“23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”
1 John 3:23, KJV.

“35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” John 13:35, KJV.

Wouldn't this (have love one to another) be the best manifestation, by far, than speaking in tongues.

By the way, I have been around this a long time and some of the tongues that I have seen in some of the best churches I do not believe is God speaking through someone. If it's God speaking please tell me why He is so limited in his vocabulary. They say the same thing over and over. It seems to me like it has become a learned thing. Forgive me if I'm wrong...but I don't think I am.

Been Thinkin

Jason B · #38 01-26-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

What is the Biblical response to Acts 2:38 & the rite of entry into the Chrisitan church, aka the body of Christ? Let us enter into a challenging and scriptural debate concerning these things. And yes, I do believe in tongues. My question is how do some force their rigid interpretation of Acts 2:38 (meaning if one hasn't spoken in tongues, they are damned, no matter what else) into the following verses? Please feel free to answer question by question, or verse by verse.

What was the BIBLICAL RESPONSE to Peter's preaching on the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter two? And what was the result of that response?

Answer, verse 41.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

#1)they were baptized (an act which follows repentance in the normative New testament pattern)

#2)they were added to the church

Question, where are tongues present or even implied in this passage?

In Acts 2:37 the people ask Peter a question, "What shall WE do?"
Peter's reply:
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. " Acts 2:38

Please correct me if I'm reading it wrong, did not Peter give them 2 specific commands? 1)repent 2)be baptized these are things that we choose to do, or not to do. The third thing is something that God only can do. Is it impossible that God would give the gift of the Holy Ghost to those who obey what Peter preached? Yet, as I mentioned, where are tongues present in the passage? Only as a means to preach the gospel between verses 4-11.

When they followed Peter's two commands, does not the Bible say they were added unto them (verse 41)?

ok, here is a shorter version, maybe someone will deal with this specifically since no one is addressing any of the verses I posted. Off to church tonight, Iwill check back late this evening.

the question is, at what point is someone "IN CHRIST" or "added" to the church?

Pastor Keith · #39 01-26-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

ok, here is a shorter version, maybe someone will deal with this specifically since no one is addressing any of the verses I posted. Off to church tonight, Iwill check back late this evening.

the question is, at what point is someone "IN CHRIST" or "added" to the church?

In Christ through Baptism-Romans 6

In the Church Body via the Spirit 1 Corinthians 12

Aquila · #40 01-26-2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary

But why do we need "proof" of people getting the Holy Ghost? Sinners may need evidence, but why does the church? In Acts 2, the Holy Ghost had never before been poured out in such a way. In Acts 10, the Holy Ghost had never been poured out on Gentiles before. Therefore, evidence may have been needed in certain cases. But does that mean it is always necessary to have outward evidence?

Another question I'd ask is, while tongues may be "evidence" of the abiding presence of the Holy Ghost... is it possible for the Holy Ghost to have an abiding presence without "evidence"? Many things in the Christian walk are true and very real, but lacking "evidence".