Pentecostalism: An Impure Religion?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

-DAII-

I felt an entire thread should be dedicated to this insightful thought.

A friend of mine, a surgeon who now lives in Japan, once related to me about his experience in the Cook Islands. He observed sickness and suffering which was common among the natives due in large part to one factor: lack of genetic variation. The Amish communities suffer similar weaknesses. In the case of the Cook Islands, the problem is mostly a geographical one, resulting from being waterlocked and located in a region of the Pacific Ocean. The Amish, however, are plagued with disorders such as dwarfism, metabolic diseases, and a host of others, due to their ideology of closed communities. Science now knows that variance in genes are essential to perpetuate the healthiness of our offspring. That is why "expanding the gene pool" is a good thing. Weaknesses or gaps in a partner's genetic make-up may be compensated by healthy, hardier genes in the other person. Genetic diversity makes flaws in each other's DNA more difficult to line up.

Consider that following two quotes.

In Edwin Black’s “War Against The Weak: Eugenics And America’s Campaign To Create A Master Race,” the author quotes Walter Plecker, head of Virginia’s Bureau of Vital Statistics in 1912 as saying this: “The white race in this land, is the foundation upon which rests its civilization, and is responsible for the leading position which we occupy amongst the nations of the world. Is it not, therefore, just and right that this race decide for itself what its composition shall be, and attempt, as Virginia has, to maintain its purity?” (page163)

This is a relatively recent quote from the Chairman of the WPF, taken directly from their website: “There is a sense of destiny upon this fellowship. I sense it. I feel it, and many others have expressed the same feeling. Brethren, let us continue preaching this great Jesus name, One God apostolic message. Separation from the world is still a vital part of our message that we must never compromise on. Hearts are hungry for it, and let us not be influenced by the idea of “the emerging church” and other so called spiritual fads that are springing up in these last days. Let us stay true to our message.”

Both of the above statements promote a similar message and theme. The call-to-arms is essentially the same as well, isolation and a closed community. Sound familiar? The Pentecostal leaders who maintain this type of culture should expect the natural consequences, “theological defects” such as “Magic Hair” doctrine, teachings designed to produce loyalty instead of love, spiritual extortion, grace plus law, sins of the spirit and the flesh, etc., etc. We are now witnessing spiritual dwarfs and high spiritual mortality rates in many church assemblies. Left unchecked, these tendencies will produce more and more false doctrines and fables until, like the natives on the Cook Islands, church members may end up begging for diversity to bring balance back to their “genetic makeup.” And when families look around in bewilderment, wondering how their sad state of affairs was able to transpire, it can all be traced back to one word…arrogance. “Doth not even nature itself teach you…?”

And excellent and thoughtful post, Sir Noe Tick.

[Michael The Disciple]

Heres where Im coming from.

10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor. 1:10

5: Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom. 15:5-6

1: If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2: Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Phil. 2:1-2

16: Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Phil. 3:16

I think it clearly the will of YAH that we believe the same thing and walk by the same rule. The fact that there is so much "diversity" is hurting the Church. It means many are walking the wrong way.

[Sam]

If the leader of a local assembly thinks that all other assemblies (even if in the same organization) in town are compromisers and there should be no fellowship or mingling, and if the leader insists that all marriages should be with people from that same local assembly, how long does it take to become inbred and to cause recessive genes to emerge as dominant? This is like a redneck thinking a family reunion is a good place to pick up girls.

In the Old Testament, the Israelites were told not to intermarry with the Canaanites, yet provision was made to take the virgins as wives. This kept some variety in the gene pool.

I do not think it is right for a believer to marry a nonbeliever. I do, however, think that youth rallies, camp meetings, conferences, Bible Schools, etc. are good for meeting other believers who bring new genes to the gene pool. This has got to be better than marrying your cousin because she meets the requirement of going to the same church you do.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I think it clearly the will of YAH that we believe the same thing and walk by the same rule. The fact that there is so much "diversity" is hurting the Church. It means many are walking the wrong way.

I do not use the word diversity as a loaded term here. Nor do I define diversity to be in opposition to a uniform, collective understanding of truthful principles. Diversity of opinion, diversity of experience, diversity of talent, and diversity of expression, can make it possible to be progressive as a community and sidestep the shortcomings of groups “where no counsel is…”

I contend that lack of diversity actually hurts the body of Christ. Naturally speaking, our members are diverse in look, feel and function, yet they work together for a common purpose. I believe Paul understood this and worked toward multiformity, not uniformity. He defended the liberties of believers on many occasions (Romans 14) (Colossians 2:21-23) and admonished against disorder, disunity, and diverse (strange) doctrines, not against diversity in general (Hebrews 13:9) (1 Corinthians 14:33).

So if arrogance, isolationism, and absolute conformity are the traits of a “genetically” weak and tottering religious community, what is the remedy that can bring it back to a healthier state of existence? I suggest open fellowship, open dialogue and questioning, tolerance of diverseness, willingness to adapt, and an aim to be relevant to the surrounding environment. This can only stem from love and humility and a no-strings-attached approach to others, which, under the current system of Western organized religion, poses quite a challenge.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Sam

If the leader of a local assembly thinks that all other assemblies (even if in the same organization) in town are compromisers and there should be no fellowship or mingling, and if the leader insists that all marriages should be with people from that same local assembly, how long does it take to become inbred and to cause recessive genes to emerge as dominant? This is like a redneck thinking a family reunion is a good place to pick up girls.

I believe DAII is stating that this is happening in a spiritual sense. We have arrogant spiritual Walter Plecker types demanding denominational purity, as well as the ignorant "redneck" class who are unwittingly going along. God help us.

[Michael The Disciple]

Noeticknight,

What do these scriptures mean?

10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor. 1:10

5: Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom. 15:5-6

1: If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2: Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Phil. 2:1-2

16: Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Phil. 3:16

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Noeticknight,

What do these scriptures mean?

10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor. 1:10

5: Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom. 15:5-6

1: If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2: Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Phil. 2:1-2

16: Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Phil. 3:16

Either one of two things:

1. Speak the same words, or if possible, learn to recite a standardized response to anyone who inquires or questions our dogma. Do not think independently, imaginatively, or in any way that deviates from what you have been trained and taught. Be of one accord, uniform, homogeneous, walking and behaving by a code and rule of law, which has been delivered to you by your superiors.

2. Walk in love and unity, with regard to moral truth.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

I believe DAII is stating that this is happening in a spiritual sense. We have arrogant spiritual Walter Plecker types demanding denominational purity, as well as the ignorant "redneck" class who are unwittingly going along. God help us.

Plecker.... why'd you have to mention that name?

I'm so white that white kids made fun of me for being so white. Yet, according to Plecker and his ilk, I'm a mongrolized colored.

Go figure.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Plecker.... why'd you have to mention that name?

I'm so white that white kids made fun of me for being so white. Yet, according to Plecker and his ilk, I'm a mongrolized colored.

Go figure.

The arrogance is amazing isn't it? I believe Jesus also had words for us concerning those that feared a "mongrelization" of religion...

WDJS: "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15:14)

Which brings me back to the title of this thread. What is pure religion? Bro. James says this: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." (James 1:27) In (Matthew 15:18) Jesus tells us what makes a man impure..."But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean..."

I believe many in Pentecost are guilty of Jesus' charge in verse 3 of Matthew 15:

"Jesus replied, 'And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?'"

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

I do not use the word diversity as a loaded term here. Nor do I define diversity to be in opposition to a uniform, collective understanding of truthful principles. Diversity of opinion, diversity of experience, diversity of talent, and diversity of expression, can make it possible to be progressive as a community and sidestep the shortcomings of groups “where no counsel is…”

I contend that lack of diversity actually hurts the body of Christ. Naturally speaking, our members are diverse in look, feel and function, yet they work together for a common purpose. I believe Paul understood this and worked toward multiformity, not uniformity. He defended the liberties of believers on many occasions (Romans 14) (Colossians 2:21-23) and admonished against disorder, disunity, and diverse (strange) doctrines, not against diversity in general (Hebrews 13:9) (1 Corinthians 14:33).

So if arrogance, isolationism, and absolute conformity are the traits of a “genetically” weak and tottering religious community, what is the remedy that can bring it back to a healthier state of existence? I suggest open fellowship, open dialogue and questioning, tolerance of diverseness, willingness to adapt, and an aim to be relevant to the surrounding environment. This can only stem from love and humility and a no-strings-attached approach to others, which, under the current system of Western organized religion, poses quite a challenge.

You are speaking of the very heart of the matter, I am a stronger Christian today because I "mingled" and do mingled with serious Christians from various backgrounds. Our current church is a fifty year old church that was founded as a Church of Christ, now a vibrant fellowship of believers of Christ. Flawed but serious seeking the paths and purposes of Jesus, Jesus is the focus, along with small groups and serious ministry to refugees from African, not separate churches for each ethic group, we are one body. Powerful worship with voice and music, and preaching of the story of Jesus and his intentions in the earth. Wonderful people, no lording over, community of believers.