Sermons in Acts and Hell

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by ben.nebula

i think that hell is ultimately the motivation for being saved because of our flesh and its unability to understand the long-term consequences of it's actions - if the jews didnt understand hell then it would have been more difficult for them to live for GOD or understand true salvation

If by "hell" one means the "Lake of Fire" and "eternal torment" (Revelation 19:20) then it does appear to be true that the people of the Bible did not have this understanding throughout the OT period. It was introduced (or revealed) during the intertestamental period. (See Ecclesiastes 9:5-6; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Job 14:7-12; Psalm 6:5; Psalm 88:10-12; Isaiah 38:18-19).

By the time of Jesus' ministry it was still not completely accepted. The Sadducees, for example, rejected the idea along with the concept of the resurrection of the dead - AND they did so because the Law of Moses never once mentioned such a thing... at least not explicitly.

Jesus of course famously found a "loop hole" in their line of reasoning and showed from the Pentateuch that there was at least an implicit idea in the background that supported the notion that spirits and the resurrected dead could still exist (Matthew 22:31-34).

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There is no mention of Hell in any of the sermons in Acts.

Acts 2:40 "...Save yourself from this untoward generation"
Acts 3:23 "And it shall come to pass that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 5:31 "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."
Acts 7:53 "Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it."
Acts 8:24 "Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me."
Acts 10:42-43 "And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
Acts 13:38-39 "Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethern, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins. 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

There may be more accounts but I think these are sufficient. And it seems that Hell is not mentioned once. It's not hard to understand how forgiveness of sins could be preached to jews and those that believed in God. However, since Hell is not mentioned what did salvation mean to those that had it preached to them? I don't think that the jews of that time had any idea about what hell was. What were they being told to be saved from?

Saved from coming destruction of jerusalem.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And this I quoted in the other thread CJ started

Dan 12:1 "At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
Dan 12:5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and behold, two others stood, one on this bank of the stream and one on that bank of the stream.
Dan 12:6 And someone said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, "How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?"
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.
Dan 12:8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?"
Dan 12:9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.
Dan 12:12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.
Dan 12:13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days."

And there we have another brick in the foundation of the doctrine of eternal judgment.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And this I quoted in the other thread CJ started

Dan 12:1 "At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
Dan 12:5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and behold, two others stood, one on this bank of the stream and one on that bank of the stream.
Dan 12:6 And someone said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, "How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?"
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.
Dan 12:8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?"
Dan 12:9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.
Dan 12:12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.
Dan 12:13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days."

There is an Old Testament reference to Hell and the resurrection of the dead.

Originally Posted by pelathais

If by "hell" one means the "Lake of Fire" and "eternal torment" (Revelation 19:20) then it does appear to be true that the people of the Bible did not have this understanding throughout the OT period. It was introduced (or revealed) during the intertestamental period. (See Ecclesiastes 9:5-6; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Job 14:7-12; Psalm 6:5; Psalm 88:10-12; Isaiah 38:18-19).

By the time of Jesus' ministry it was still not completely accepted. The Sadducees, for example, rejected the idea along with the concept of the resurrection of the dead - AND they did so because the Law of Moses never once mentioned such a thing... at least not explicitly.

Jesus of course famously found a "loop hole" in their line of reasoning and showed from the Pentateuch that there was at least an implicit idea in the background that supported the notion that spirits and the resurrected dead could still exist (Matthew 22:31-34).

Would you say that the ideas of a resurrection of the dead and hell were both prevalent in Jesus' time? Or would you say that few people believed in these things?

[Sam]

In addition to the verses in Daniel 12:1-3 about the resurrection, there are a couple more in the Old Testament.

It seems Job believed in a resurrection.
ref Job 19:25-27
25 I know that my Redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand upon the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

ref Job 14:12-15
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

and the book ends with Job 42:17
17 So Job died, being old and full of days and it is written that he will rise again with those whom the Lord raises up.

David may have been speaking of his appointed time to wake up out of sleep at the resurrection when he said, "As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness." Psalm 17:14

Isaiah 26:19-21 is taken by some to refer to a time of future tribulation and resurrection.
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There is an Old Testament reference to Hell and the resurrection of the dead.



Would you say that the ideas of a resurrection of the dead and hell were both prevalent in Jesus' time? Or would you say that few people believed in these things?

I think that it would be hard to say. It seems to be the general consensus that the Pharisaical tradition (which believed in the after life) represented the majority opinion in Jesus' time. However, the Sadducees held sway in the priesthood and the Temple/Jerusalem religious "headquarters."

But yes, both were obviously prevalent in Jesus' time: the resurrection of the dead and hell. It's just that they were absent from pre-Captivity literature (with the possible exception of the Samuel/witch of Endor thing - but even that is held by most to have been a post-exilic history).

Daniel's visions in Daniel 12 were said to have taken place during the Persian period of the captivity. The writing of the book certainly was at some point after the visions it describes. And...

It was the Persian Zoroastrianism that first had an explicit teaching on "eternal judgment in a lake of fire" and had a complex and rich hierarchy of angels and demons. Then, after the interaction with the Persians, the Hebrew literature begins to develop these same themes.

By the time of Jesus, a rich apocalyptic literary genre had developed that the writers of the Bible clearly interacted with. This would include the Book(s) of Enoch, The Book of Adam, The Book of Jubilees and right on up to and including the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Compare the rich and descriptive passages on the after life in these works to the passages I mentioned in the previous post.

In the days of King David and King Solomon there wasn't much going on "in the grave." By the NT time period that was plenty happening and even more to come!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sam

...and the book ends with Job 42:17
17 So Job died, being old and full of days and it is written that he will rise again with those whom the Lord raises up.
...

That's an interesting Bible you've got there, where'd you find it?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

An everlasting Hell where souls were tormented for millions upon billions upon trillions of years was not known in the Old Testament. Yet the destruction of the soul of the wicked was.

4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4

This was the same doctrine taught by Yeshua.

28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt. 10:28

This fire judgment is shown us in Malachi.

16: Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17: And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18: Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

1: For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Mal. 1:1

This is the reference Yeshua had in mind:

40: As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41: The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42: And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matt. 13:40-42

The "furnace of fire" Yeshua mentioned sounds a lot like Malachi's fiery oven. The "tares" sound a lot like Malachi's "stubble".

If we read further in Mal. the fire is purifying:

Malachi 3:2-3 (King James Version)

2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

If we read further in Mal. the fire is purifying:

Malachi 3:2-3 (King James Version)

2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Actually the verse he refers to is Mal 4:1, totally different context

Mal 4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.

Also
Amo 5:18 Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! Why would you have the day of the LORD? It is darkness, and not light,
Amo 5:19 as if a man fled from a lion, and a bear met him, or went into the house and leaned his hand against the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amo 5:20 Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light, and gloom with no brightness in it?

Oba 1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the nations. As you have done, it shall be done to you; your deeds shall return on your own head.
Oba 1:16 For as you have drunk on my holy mountain, so all the nations shall drink continually; they shall drink and swallow, and shall be as though they had never been.
Oba 1:17 But in Mount Zion there shall be those who escape, and it shall be holy, and the house of Jacob shall possess their own possessions.
Oba 1:18 The house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau stubble; they shall burn them and consume them, and there shall be no survivor for the house of Esau, for the LORD has spoken.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Actually the verse he refers to is Mal 4:1, totally different context

Mal 4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.

Also
Amo 5:18 Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! Why would you have the day of the LORD? It is darkness, and not light,
Amo 5:19 as if a man fled from a lion, and a bear met him, or went into the house and leaned his hand against the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amo 5:20 Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light, and gloom with no brightness in it?

Oba 1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the nations. As you have done, it shall be done to you; your deeds shall return on your own head.
Oba 1:16 For as you have drunk on my holy mountain, so all the nations shall drink continually; they shall drink and swallow, and shall be as though they had never been.
Oba 1:17 But in Mount Zion there shall be those who escape, and it shall be holy, and the house of Jacob shall possess their own possessions.
Oba 1:18 The house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau stubble; they shall burn them and consume them, and there shall be no survivor for the house of Esau, for the LORD has spoken.

Yes I know, and his context is clearly the coming judgment of the house of Israel, seems that 70 AD is clearly in view to the prophet. And yet, in chapter three the prophet was seeing the purifying of Israel. It is there if you have eyes to see, and ears to hear.