The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[Michael The Disciple]

The topic needs its own thread. Its a very easy topic to teach and cannot be refuted.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The topic needs its own thread. Its a very easy topic to teach and cannot be refuted.

I'm just wanting to make sure you're not propagating that we, as believers, are bound & obligated to be flawless, never failing. If that's what you're saying, I'd have to join with Jeffrey and ask, "How's that working out for you?"

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The topic needs its own thread. Its a very easy topic to teach and cannot be refuted.

Well, that sums it up for me, right there!







j/k

[Michael The Disciple]

Jesus is coming for this kind of Church:

25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:25-27

All else will be lost.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus is coming for this kind of Church:

25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:25-27

All else will be lost.

The Ecumenical Church will be without spot or blemish. Yes, I agree. I, however, am not flawless, and you and I hold that in common. But really, I have no idea what this has to do with much of anything we're talking about here, so I'll drop it.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus is coming for this kind of Church:

25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:25-27

All else will be lost.

How did the church get to be "perfect" anyhow???

... Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Christ did it all for us at Calvary!!! Add Michael the Disciple to the list of "Warriors for Grace!"

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How did the church get to be "perfect" anyhow???

... Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Christ did it all for us at Calvary!!! Add Michael the Disciple to the list of "Warriors for Grace!"

Looking from this perspective we see an overlooked aspect of the grace of YAH.

12: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13

God is working in us and through us. Yet we are working! The overcomer has been "joined to the Lord" and they are one spirit.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Looking from this perspective we see an overlooked aspect of the grace of YAH.

12: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13

God is working in us and through us. Yet we are working! The overcomer has been "joined to the Lord" and they are one spirit.

Michael! You were so close! I'm disappointed in this backsliding of yours.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Michael! You were so close! I'm disappointed in this backsliding of yours.

Pel,

Dont fret! I am indeed a warrior of grace. Note what the Apostle says grace does:

11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Titus 2:13

It both brings salvation and teaches us to live a life of obedience towards Yeshua Messiah.

[TheLegalist]

I take it for what it says, and I think that certainly includes what you've mentioned, but the connection between Genesis 15:6; Romans 4 and Galatians 3:6-14; can't be left out.

You negate as usual Pauls selective point to the negation of James and all the rest of scripture. God can only judge by witness. Which is the point of Judgement by deeds at the end. Either unto life or condemnation. Did you abide as a faithful servant unto NO condemnation or unto the flesh by which you will die. You saying God's judgment and how he judged all throughout the OT changes... IT DOES NOT! God consistently looked on the heart by it's WITNESS!

God accounts us righteous because of our belief in the saving power of the cross.

God considers/judges our response just or not to obtain atonement. Belief is not doing the will of God not mental assent.

Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Atonement is only valuable unless you heart is turned to him wholly. Of which the Spirit will bear witness with your heart unto life or judgment.

Yes, those Scriptures tell us what Jesus freely and willingly did for us. However, the word "free" also comes before us in Romans 5:15-19.

It is freely "offered" but it is ALSO at a cost to obtain! Salvation is purchased from the source which is Christ...

Mat 13:44 "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
Mat 13:45 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls,
Mat 13:46 who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it.

You keep going back to the requirement for the Christian believer to be obedient to God's commands, and you'll get no argument from me about that. However, this thread is about how "The Cross and the Cross Alone Can Save..."

The cross/atonement is only effective if obedience and a heart is completely turned. See above....

What obedience is required for salvation? For our salvation?

Keeping his commandments as that is the witness by which we obtain life. Salvation is not about one moment but the judgment of a life time of faith.

Romans 5:19 - "... by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Talk about selective context to prove a point. This is talking about his offering "source/author" of salvation ot them that obey. he is the source by which we do the Father's will and obey his commandment and abide. Which is the Law upon the heart SO THAT WE MIGHT DO!

Whose obedience is in mind here? Yours? Mine? No!

Again it's his obedience to the Father's will that he abided as we also are to abide in him by which we are judged to abide. John 15

We are all made righteous by the obedience of a single individual. It was His obedience and His obedience alone that saves us. We are saved by "the obedience of one!"

This is correct as he is the "source" but salvation is not monergistic in realization it is synergistic.

Romans 11:5-6 clearly demands us to accept that this free gift comes without any "works" on our part.

sorry but you cannot be saved with negating ALL which is doing something on you part which is a life long thing not a momen in time.

sorry but JEsus clearly said that to abide we must do. Which is the same as Abraham. You clearly teach OSAS. If you say you don't then you are contradictive in your doctrine.

Paul seems to be telling us, "it's one or the other" in Romans 11:5-6. It's either "grace" or it's "works." For whatever reason, he seems to come down rather heavily on the "grace" side of things.

That's because you don't understand Paul and make JEsus, John, James all against Paul.