Rick Warren...Not As Liberal As We Thought?

[Aquila]

I greatly respect Rick Warren though I disagree with him on many doctrinal issues. PDL is a great book and worthy of review. I count him as my brother in Christ and while there are some disagreement, as Paul said, .... Christ is preached.

[n david]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I really don't care if he was for it or against. He was VERY active in supporting it and I didn't care for that. I don't care for it when churches actively oppose or support particular political agendas.

I believe redemption is the solution for homosexuality, not a law against it.

I'm not familiar with his flip-flop on the issue. He as very vocal in his support of Prop 8 and never changed that to my knowledge.

I'm not familiar with his involvement with prop 8, but you're not the first I've heard or read that said he was vocally for it ... even from the stage. Unfortunately, that makes him a liar since he's since stated he never once endorsed the prop.

California mega-church pastor and author of The Purpose Driven Life Rick Warren says he apologized to his homosexual friends for making comments in support of California's Proposition 8, and now claims he "never once even gave an endorsement" of the marriage amendment.

Source

Evangelical leaders say they are bewildered and stunned by the Rev. Rick Warren's apparent turnaround on gay marriage after the famous California pastor said earlier this week that he was not a proponent of California's Proposition 8.

Mr. Warren told CNN's Larry King on Monday that he "never once even gave an endorsement" of the proposition, which said marriage in the state could only involve one man and one woman. The measure won at the polls last November by a close margin, in effect negating an earlier California Supreme Court ruling allowing gay marriages.

Source

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by n david

I'm not familiar with his involvement with prop 8, but you're not the first I've heard or read that said he was vocally for it ... even from the stage. Unfortunately, that makes him a liar since he's since stated he never once endorsed the prop.


Source



Source

Hmmm.....I based my statement that he actively supported Prop 8 on the letter that he sent to members. I wouldn't call him a "Liar" but it sure does sound like he's trying to weasel out of it. Ugh. Not cool.

[n david]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Hmmm.....I based my statement that he actively supported Prop 8 on the letter that he sent to members. I wouldn't call him a "Liar" but it sure does sound like he's trying to weasel out of it. Ugh. Not cool.

What would you define a "liar" as? I define it as someone who says or does something, but denies saying or doing it. Be that, RW would be a liar by definition.

In the first source link provided, there's not only mention of a letter being sent to his members that clearly endorses prop 8, but there's a transcript of what he told his audience from the stage that also clearly endorses the prop.

RW says he "never once" endorsed it, when evidence proves he did - not just once, but on at least two occasions.

That, my friend, would be a lie, which would make RW a liar. Sad, but true.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by n david

What would you define a "liar" as? I define it as someone who says or does something, but denies saying or doing it. Be that, RW would be a liar by definition.

In the first source link provided, there's not only mention of a letter being sent to his members that clearly endorses prop 8, but there's a transcript of what he told his audience from the stage that also clearly endorses the prop.

RW says he "never once" endorsed it, when evidence proves he did - not just once, but on at least two occasions.

That, my friend, would be a lie, which would make RW a liar. Sad, but true.

I understand your connection of the dots. But I also understand his, while not liking it. I think he'd weaseling out of it. My guess is that when he said, "He never endorsed it", he was saying that he didn't make a public statement about it.

So I'm not going to bark, "Liar", but I would say that it's disingenuous. He's trying to make everybody happy and that never works.

That being said, if you're going to call him a liar, I would get in a knock-down, drag-out fight with you about it. I'm very disappointed.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I understand your connection of the dots. But I also understand his, while not liking it. I think he'd weaseling out of it. My guess is that when he said, "He never endorsed it", he was saying that he didn't make a public statement about it.

So I'm not going to bark, "Liar", but I would say that it's disingenuous. He's trying to make everybody happy and that never works.

That being said, if you're going to call him a liar, I would get in a knock-down, drag-out fight with you about it. I'm very disappointed.

Interesting that you say that. I just read this blog this morning that mentions that issue:

Why John Piper Should Not Have Invited Rick Warren

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Interesting that you say that. I just read this blog this morning that mentions that issue:

Why John Piper Should Not Have Invited Rick Warren

I'll check that out. I like Rick Warren but he has irked me a time or two with statements he made about Willow Creek and Bill Hybels that were a slight dig at them. He & Hybels started at, roughly, the same time (Hybels was first) and they made a pact together of things they would always do and never do (one of those things was never going on television).

I'll tell you this, though, there is NO comparison between a service at Willow and one at Saddleback. None at all.

[BroGary]

Here are some interesting articles I found online:

(Rick Warren supporters will probally dismiss this no matter what anyone says, but they are entitled to their opinion, but for those who care to know some of what is really behind the ecumenical wolf in sheep's clothing can research it for themselves, below is some info for a start)

....on May 30, 2008, Tony Blair announced his creation of the "Tony Blair Faith Foundation."

Blair is scheduled to teach at Yale University on "Faith and Globalization." His website reports that "Tony Blair launched his Faith Foundation with a call for the creation of a new coalition to harness the moral leadership of people of faith." Blair names the six largest religions in his vision: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikh. He intends to bring them together.

What does it mean to "HARNESS" the leadership?

Don't think this was a slip-up. If you have observed how Al Gore has turned the Global Environmentalism movement into an activist movement pressing governments and legislatures to impose their "green" agenda into hard law, then you may be able to imagine how Tony Blair and his Faith Foundation will create an activist movement that will ultimately impose their "ecumenical" agenda into hard laws that will force religions into compliance with international laws.

Don't think it can't happen. Blair already has "Christian" people like David Coffey of the Baptist World Alliance, Rick Warren of the "Purpose Driven Church" movement, Jewish Rabbis, Zen masters, Muslim leaders, and others on board. This is a POWERFUL group of movers and shakers being assembled. It won't pay for you to disagree with them in the end. Sooner or later, they will get what they want.

http://kenraggio.com/KRPN-UnitedReligions.htm

Also:

The true purpose behind the PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH AND LIFE is the establishment of a final One World Religion.

the Illuminati's premier political and economic organ, the socialistic, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), has elevated to membership two key operatives, two men who are at the helm of America's most influential Christian evangelical groups. I refer to Pastor Rick Warren, Saddleback Community Church in California, and Dr. Richard Land, reigning religious potentate and poobah of the massive Southern Baptist Convention.

For the first time in the almost 100-year history of the CFR, evangelical leaders have been elevated to elite status as members of the exclusive globalist secret society. Their charge is to bring over 100 million Americans who are thought to be religious conservatives into the fold of the Illuminati and into the Big Tent of the emerging Global Order.

Rick Warren, called "America's Pastor" by the Illuminist-controlled media, has over 100,000 churches and pastors signed up in allegiance to his New Age Purpose-Driven Movement. Richard Land, meanwhile, is heard on over 600 radio stations and is a featured speaker at Southern Baptist conclaves.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53688

Rick Warren: Is he or isn't he?
---------
Posted: January 09, 2007
1:00 am Eastern
By Joseph Farah

Who are you going to believe – Rick Warren or your own eyes?
That's the dilemma I face.

You see, back in November, I had a series of e-mail exchanges with the pastor of Saddleback Church and the best-selling author of "The Purpose-Driven Life."

Among several interesting revelations of that dialogue was Warren's admission – a boast, really – that he is a member in good standing of the Council on Foreign Relations, an organization specifically founded to attack national sovereignty, to promote world government and to enlist U.S. church leaders in those goals.

Rick Warren signed the Common Word, sadly, along with many other Evangelical and Jewish leaders, which is starts off with the Muslim invocation of Allah and "his prophet Mohamed". This reminds me of when the Israelites unwittingly signed a treaty with the Gibeonites in Joshua.

He is part of CFR, by his own admission.. I did not take this from the World Net Daily. He does mention "Jesus" but the problem is that he is part of the "post-modern" confusion.

He set up Synagogue 3000 to help Jews make better synagogues.. Wouldn't it be a better use of his time to help Jews know their Messiah? He is part of the promotion of Emergent Church which to my mind is the worst example of the confusion entering the body of Messiah. Some of the Emergents don't even acknowledge the Bible as being true and authoritative.. He has Purpose Driven for Catholics..

"Purpose-Driven-everything" apostate, wolf-in-sheep's-clothing Rick Warren is a member of the one-worlder Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

With the aid of positive, corporate (CFR-controlled) media coverage, and huge book sales, Warren, the "pastor" of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA, has apparently been tapped by the Illuminati Establishment NWO elites to follow in the footsteps of ecumenical apostate Billy Graham (e.g., awarded an honorary doctorate from the Jesuits at Belmont Abbey College) in leading the sheep of God's flock (i.e., Christians) astray in America by supporting the Illuminati, NWO, one-worlder elites for high political office, including the office of President of the United States. The NWO is an enemy of Christian faith, family, and freedom. It seeks to establish a one-world government dictatorship of socialist tyranny. It means the end of United States sovereignty. . "For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed." Isaiah 9:16

it is important to understand that the Dominionist doctrine embraced by an increasing number of apostate ministries is straight from the occult. From the very seeds of civilization, Gnostic sects and keepers of the Gnostic Kabalistic dogma have spoken of humankind evolving into a God-like being. The Kabbala calls this being the Adam Kadmon, or “God Man.” The name “Adam” refers to the entire human race and the term “Kadmon” refers to completion. Thus, Adam Kadmon speaks of a return to our beginning, with all the knowledge, wisdom, and enlightenment of the first “Adam.” Those who embrace this doctrine firmly believe we can return to the Garden of Eden by becoming the Adam Kadmon and creating Heaven on Earth.
(end of quotes)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I really don't care if he was for it or against. He was VERY active in supporting it and I didn't care for that. I don't care for it when churches actively oppose or support particular political agendas.

I believe redemption is the solution for homosexuality, not a law against it.

I'm not familiar with his flip-flop on the issue. He as very vocal in his support of Prop 8 and never changed that to my knowledge.

Prop 8 was not a law against homosexuality

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Prop 8 was not a law against homosexuality

Naw, really????