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  #41  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:21 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

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Originally Posted by Twisp View Post
The suspension isn't because of just this one case. It is because of this case, the other case, and the poor judgement in regards to the motorcycle accident.
That can be said. The fact remains that Big Ben is in trouble because of this one incident. I understand what you're saying, but I'm unaware the motorcycle incident factors into this at all. We still have one person, in this case, and one person in the other case, providing the "evidence" and is highly disputed.

But I'm just saying that I find all this problematic because Rothlisberger hasn't been proven to have broken a law. I don't see how he can be suspended for (his words) going into a bathroom and "fooling around" with a girl. Is he a scumbag? Maybe so.

Evander Holyfield fathered 9 children by 8 women in six years, none of whom were with his wife (as he entered the ring each time speaking in tongues). Shawn Kemp had more kids that he could count. Larry Bird fathered a daughter (Corrie) which he basically ignored for her entire life. This list is endless. Tom Tolbert, former NBA player and current radio talk-show host and network announcer, said that 95% of the married players he knew, had girlfriends on the road. If we start suspending athletes for their disgusting behavior, every league will shut down tomorrow.
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:26 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

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Originally Posted by notofworks View Post
That can be said. The fact remains that Big Ben is in trouble because of this one incident. I understand what you're saying, but I'm unaware the motorcycle incident factors into this at all. We still have one person, in this case, and one person in the other case, providing the "evidence" and is highly disputed.

But I'm just saying that I find all this problematic because Rothlisberger hasn't been proven to have broken a law. I don't see how he can be suspended for (his words) going into a bathroom and "fooling around" with a girl. Is he a scumbag? Maybe so.

Evander Holyfield fathered 9 children by 8 women in six years, none of whom were with his wife (as he entered the ring each time speaking in tongues). Shawn Kemp had more kids that he could count. Larry Bird fathered a daughter (Corrie) which he basically ignored for her entire life. This list is endless. Tom Tolbert, former NBA player and current radio talk-show host and network announcer, said that 95% of the married players he knew, had girlfriends on the road. If we start suspending athletes for their disgusting behavior, every league will shut down tomorrow.
Again, the NFL doesn't require a law to be broken. Their rules are their rules. If the player doesn't like them, tough, he can play arena football or go to the Canadian league.

I like that the NFL seems to be requiring its players to not just have talent and perform on the field, but also have some decent values and be responsible citizens.

The NBA, MLB and other professional sports should follow the NFL on this.
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  #43  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:39 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

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Originally Posted by notofworks View Post
That can be said. The fact remains that Big Ben is in trouble because of this one incident. I understand what you're saying, but I'm unaware the motorcycle incident factors into this at all. We still have one person, in this case, and one person in the other case, providing the "evidence" and is highly disputed.

But I'm just saying that I find all this problematic because Rothlisberger hasn't been proven to have broken a law. I don't see how he can be suspended for (his words) going into a bathroom and "fooling around" with a girl. Is he a scumbag? Maybe so.

Evander Holyfield fathered 9 children by 8 women in six years, none of whom were with his wife (as he entered the ring each time speaking in tongues). Shawn Kemp had more kids that he could count. Larry Bird fathered a daughter (Corrie) which he basically ignored for her entire life. This list is endless. Tom Tolbert, former NBA player and current radio talk-show host and network announcer, said that 95% of the married players he knew, had girlfriends on the road. If we start suspending athletes for their disgusting behavior, every league will shut down tomorrow.
Goodell isn't suspending him for breaking the law. He suspended him for 6 games for " violating the NFL's personal conduct policy". The motorcycle accident factors in because it is another case of poor judgement on Roethlisberger's part. And again, the suspension isn't because of this one case. It is for this case, the first case, and his lack of judgement overall.

The other athlete examples you mention do not factor into this, mainly because they are in another league and not subject to the NFL's personal conduct policy.
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  #44  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:41 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

"The Personal Conduct Policy makes clear that I may impose discipline 'even where the conduct does not result in conviction of a crime' as, for example, where the conduct 'imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person'," Goodell stated in his letter to Roethlisberger.

That is what is happening here.
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  #45  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:47 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
Again, the NFL doesn't require a law to be broken. Their rules are their rules. If the player doesn't like them, tough, he can play arena football or go to the Canadian league.

I like that the NFL seems to be requiring its players to not just have talent and perform on the field, but also have some decent values and be responsible citizens.

The NBA, MLB and other professional sports should follow the NFL on this.
I understand that, but I'm wondering how soon one of these players sues the NFL. These conduct codes aren't clearly defined. Also, the "character clause" has been in every contract that's ever been signed. The NFL hasn't changed it's position, they just changed commissioner's who reacted to a mass of Cincinnati Bengal's players that were arrested over the span of one year.

When a commissioner can arbitrarily suspend players at his own discretion, there is no clear line, and without a clear line, it all falls on the whim of one individual, which seems dangerous. I don't think we want any organization operated on the whims of one person. And why doesn't he suspend Jerry Jones who recently was filmed stone drunk defaming one of the NFL's great coaches (Parcells) and one of its potential future stars (Tebow)? The answer is simple....Jones is his boss (The Owners hire the commissioner).

But I think this will all change in the next bargaining agreement that is reached and it's coming soon. The NFL union is going to strengthen now that Gene Upshaw is gone. These kinds of suspensions would NEVER happen in the NBA and especially MLB. The Players Association would never allow it. So I don't think Goodell's big stick is gonna last long.
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  #46  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:49 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

Here is the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy:

All persons associated with the NFL are required to avoid “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League.” This requirement applies to players, coaches, other team employees, owners, game officials and all others privileged to work in the National Football League.

For many years, it has been well understood that rules promoting lawful, ethical, and responsible conduct serve the interests of the League, its players, and fans. Illegal or irresponsible conduct does more than simply tarnish the offender. It puts innocent people at risk, sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public respect and support for the NFL.

STANDARD OF CONDUCT

While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful. Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime. Discipline may be imposed in any of the following circumstances:

Criminal offenses including, but not limited to, those involving:
The use or threat of violence; domestic violence and other forms of partner abuse; theft and other property crimes; sex offenses; obstruction or resisting arrest; disorderly conduct; fraud; racketeering; and money laundering;
Criminal offenses relating to steroids and prohibited substances, or substances of abuse;
Violent or threatening behavior among employees, whether in or outside the workplace;
Possession of a gun or other weapon in any workplace setting, including but not limited to stadiums, team facilities, training camp, locker rooms, team planes,
buses, parking lots, etc., or unlawful possession of a weapon outside of the workplace;
Conduct that imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person; and
Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.
EVALUATION, COUNSELING AND TREATMENT

Apart from any disciplinary action, persons arrested, charged or otherwise appearing to have engaged in conduct prohibited under this policy will be required to undergo a formal clinical evaluation. Based on the results of that evaluation, the person may be encouraged or required to participate in an education program, counseling or other treatment deemed appropriate by health professionals. The evaluation and any resulting counseling or treatment are designed to provide assistance and are not considered discipline; however, the failure to comply with this portion of the Policy shall itself constitute a separate and independent basis for discipline.

Discipline:

Upon learning of conduct that may give rise to discipline, the League will direct an investigation which may include interviews and information gathering from medical, law enforcement, and other relevant professionals. The League will promptly advise the NFLPA of any investigation of a player, as well as of the results of the investigation. As appropriate, the employee will also have the opportunity, represented by counsel and/or a union official, to address the conduct at issue. Upon conclusion of the investigation, the Commissioner will have full authority to impose discipline as warranted.

Discipline may take the form of fines, suspension, or banishment from the League and may include a probationary period and conditions that must be satisfied prior to or following reinstatement. The specifics of the disciplinary response will be based on the nature of the incident, the actual or threatened risk to the participant and others, any prior or additional misconduct (whether or not criminal charges were filed), and other relevant factors.

Unless the case involves significant bodily harm, a first offense will generally not result in discipline until there has been a disposition of the proceeding (or until the investigation is complete in the case of employee or workplace misconduct).

With respect to repeat offenders, the Commissioner may impose discipline on an expedited basis. In such cases, the timing and nature of the discipline will be determined by the Commissioner based on several factors including but not limited to: the severity of the initial charge and later charge; the facts underlying the later charge; the length of time between the initial offense and later charge; and the player or employee’s compliance with counseling and other programs. Following a full investigation and/or resolution of the proceedings, the Commissioner will review the matter and make any appropriate adjustments.

Hearing Rights:

Following the imposition of discipline, the affected person will have the right to appeal the decision. (For players, discipline imposed during the period beginning with the Hall of Fame Game and ending with the Pro Bowl must be appealed within ten (10) calendar days following the decision.) Persons filing an appeal shall be entitled to a prompt hearing pursuant to Article XI of the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the NFL Constitution and Bylaws, to be conducted by the Commissioner or his designee. In cases involving players, the NFLPA will be entitled to participate in the hearing.

Reinstatement:

Any person suspended indefinitely or for at least one year may seek reinstatement beginning one month prior to the one-year anniversary of the suspension. As part of his consideration of the application for reinstatement from a player, the Commissioner will seek the views of the NFLPA, Player Advisory Council, and may consult medical, law enforcement, and other relevant professionals.

Other Provisions:

Covered Persons: This policy applies to all players under contract; all coaches; all game officials; all full-time employees of the NFL, NFL clubs, and all NFL-related entities; all rookie players once they are selected in the NFL college draft; and all undrafted rookie players, unsigned veterans who were under contract in the prior League Year, and other prospective employees once they commence negotiations with a club concerning employment. Clubs are strongly encouraged to communicate this policy to independent contractors and consultants and to make clear that violations of this policy will be grounds for terminating a business relationship.

“Disposition of a Criminal Proceeding”-- includes an adjudication of guilt or admission to a criminal violation; a plea to a lesser included offense; a plea of nolo contendere or no contest; or the acceptance of a diversionary program, deferred adjudication, disposition of supervision, or similar arrangements.

“Probationary Period”-- Persons found to have violated this policy may be placed on a period of probation as determined by the Commissioner. During such period, restrictions on certain activities, limitations on participation in Club activities, or other conditions may be imposed.

Repeat Offenders:

Persons who have had previous violations of law or of this policy may be considered repeat offenders. When appropriate, conduct occurring prior to the person’s association with the League will be considered.

Reporting of Incidents -- The League must be advised promptly of any incident that may be a violation of this policy, and particularly when any conduct results in an arrest or other criminal charge. Players and club employees must report any such incident to the club, which must then report it to NFL Security. Failure to report an incident will constitute conduct detrimental and will be taken into consideration in making disciplinary determination under this policy. Clubs are also required to report incidents that come to their attention.

Assistance: Players and employees are encouraged to consult with their Player Development Directors or with the League’s Player and Employee Development Department to obtain access to educational, counseling, and other programs and resources that will help in avoiding misconduct that may result in discipline.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...conduct-policy
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:49 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisp View Post
Goodell isn't suspending him for breaking the law. He suspended him for 6 games for " violating the NFL's personal conduct policy". The motorcycle accident factors in because it is another case of poor judgement on Roethlisberger's part. And again, the suspension isn't because of this one case. It is for this case, the first case, and his lack of judgement overall.

The other athlete examples you mention do not factor into this, mainly because they are in another league and not subject to the NFL's personal conduct policy.
Again, I know this. But who defines and how is the "Personal Conduct Policy" defined? Big Ben hasn't yet done near the damage to the league's reputation that Al Davis has done. What about the off-field antics of Terrell Owens? Jerry Jones? This whole system is very inconsistent and operated on the whims and mood of one person and I think that's dangerous.
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  #48  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:54 AM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

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Originally Posted by notofworks View Post
Again, I know this. But who defines and how is the "Personal Conduct Policy" defined? Big Ben hasn't yet done near the damage to the league's reputation that Al Davis has done. What about the off-field antics of Terrell Owens? Jerry Jones? This whole system is very inconsistent and operated on the whims and mood of one person and I think that's dangerous.
What has TO done that is close to what Roethlisberger has done?

Goodell, much like any other boss, has the right to fire or suspend any employee of his. Key phrase in the Personal Conduct Policy:

"It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful. Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime."

Goodell is obviously covered here, and it is not arbitrary. It is spelled out for the players.
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  #49  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:00 PM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

Below is a link to the NFL Personal Conduct Policy posted on ESPN.com.

Not sure what category Ben would fall under. He does have the right to appeal, though I doubt he would do that. Of course, the Steelers can seek to get some money back from his contract depending on the length he's suspended. So he may appeal if he's set to lose too much money.

NFL PCP on ESPN
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  #50  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:06 PM
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Re: Worse Than Tiger Woods

Wups, didn't see Twisp's post .... sorry.
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