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Old 04-26-2010, 03:12 PM
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Re: Read the Seagraves Document....

This is Romans 3:19-4:25 from the New Living Translation (NLT). The terms “made right with God” or “declared righteous” or “declared right” or “made acceptable to God” are used instead of the terms “justified” or “justification.” It is my understanding that the Apostle Paul is emphasizing here that justification or being declared righteous happened at Abram’s initial faith and not after circumcision or even after offering Isaac on the altar. That's my opinion. Someone else may see it differently.

19 Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

Christ Took Our Punishment

21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[a] and the prophets long ago. 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.[b] 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

Romans 4


1 Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? 2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. 3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[c]

4 When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. 5 But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. 6 David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it:

7 “Oh, what joy for those
whose disobedience is forgiven,
whose sins are put out of sight.
8 Yes, what joy for those
whose record the Lord has cleared of sin.”[d]

9 Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles?[e] Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised!

11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.

13 Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. 14 If God’s promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless. 15 For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)

16 So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe. 17 That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, “I have made you the father of many nations.”[f] This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who creates new things out of nothing.

18 Even when there was no reason for hope, Abraham kept hoping—believing that he would become the father of many nations. For God had said to him, “That’s how many descendants you will have!”[g] 19 And Abraham’s faith did not weaken, even though, at about 100 years of age, he figured his body was as good as dead—and so was Sarah’s womb.

20 Abraham never wavered in believing God’s promise. In fact, his faith grew stronger, and in this he brought glory to God. 21 He was fully convinced that God is able to do whatever he promises. 22 And because of Abraham’s faith, God counted him as righteous. 23 And when God counted him as righteous, it wasn’t just for Abraham’s benefit. It was recorded 24 for our benefit, too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was handed over to die because of our sins, and he was raised to life to make us right with God.

Footnotes:

1. Romans 3:21 Greek in the law.
2. Romans 3:30 Greek whether they are circumcised or uncircumcised.
3. Romans 4:3 Gen 15:6.
4. Romans 4:8 Ps 32:1-2 (Greek version).
5. Romans 4:9 Greek is this blessing only for the circumcised, or is it also for the uncircumcised?
6. Romans 4:17 Gen 17:5.
7. Romans 4:18 Gen 15:5.
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  #62  
Old 04-26-2010, 03:28 PM
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Re: Read the Seagraves Document....

This is from page 19 of the 1952 Manual of the United Pentecostal Church. the subject is Repentance and Conversion. I don’t know how the current Manual reads

Repentance and Conversion

Pardon and forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing and forsaking of sins. We are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5;1). John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the Apostles emphasized it to both Jews and Gentiles. (Acts 2:38; 11:18; 17:30)

The word “repentance” comes from several Greek word which mean, change of views and purpose, change of heart, change of mind, change of life, to transform, etc.

Jesus saisd, “...except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3).

Luke 24:47 says, “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in HIs name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”

-------------------------------------------------
This is from page 3 of a PCI Manual. I don’t know the year:

Conversion Or Forgiveness Of Sins

Comes by repentance twoard God through fiath in our Lord Jesus Christ, by confessing and forsaking our sins.

------------------------------------------------

The way the UPC manual is worded, one could take the terms “conversion”, “forgiveness”, “pardon”, “repentance”, and “justified” as being used interchangeably.
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  #63  
Old 04-27-2010, 07:30 AM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
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Re: Read the Seagraves Document....

Rom 4:19 He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb.
Rom 4:20 No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,
Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
Rom 4:22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."


hmmm even Pauls OWN WORDS see Gen 15:6 as a reference to the WHOLE VIEW not a point in time! Paul says JUST AS JAMES USES events in his life as a reference to "believed" in Gen 15:6. Thus his "life" is within view of what "believed" is in Gen 15:6.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"--and he was called a friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

JAMES is clear as Paul agrees Gen 15:6 and the word "believed" is a view of the WHOLE unto fulfillment. Thus why he says the SCRIPTURE is brought to pass/completion/realized/fulfilled. Which was the WRITER of GENESIS telling you what would happen in the future and THAT Abraham BELIEVED(broad view of events in total to come) Paul clearly teaches "THAT IS WHY..." Romans 4:22 How did he not waver... He did what God said and continued in him. When asked, he did, and did not question God. Why was the promise brought about.


Gen 26:4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed,
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Which is HIS FAITH REALIZED as James said and as Paul references as UNWAVERING.

Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.

Isn't this also true of baptism? We have faith in the working of God to be united and changed at baptism with Christ.

Last edited by TheLegalist; 04-27-2010 at 07:57 AM.
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