Who are the Cherubims?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mfblume

One day I noticed that when we look at Ezekiel 1's description of the placement of the cherubims where they are called LIVING CREATURES, which is synonymous for BEASTS in Revelation, we read they are standing with the human face in the forefront, the lion on the right, ox on left and eagle in behind on the back. This is the same placement as the standards with the same faces around the tabernacle in Num 2.

Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

Front = South
Right = East
Left = West
Back = North

It's a bit difficult to say that it's "the same" - these standards are conjectural.

For example, why is "Reuben's" emblem a "man?" Reuben's most notable emblem was a mandrake, which looks nothing like a man. Of course, Numbers 2, speaks of the individual tribes as possessing "standards" so there were almost certainly different symbols on display in each camp.

I'm curious as to the source of this graphic and the reasoning behind the selection of each emblem. Until someone else had also asked about this I hadn't really looked at this for many years.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It's a bit difficult to say that it's "the same" - these standards are conjectural.

For example, why is "Reuben's" emblem a "man?" Reuben's most notable emblem was a mandrake, which looks nothing like a man.

Reuben was the FIRSTBORN.

Of course, Numbers 2, speaks of the individual tribes as possessing "standards" so there were almost certainly different symbols on display in each camp.

One can see the standards for all the tribes in Hebrew cultural pics. A stamp exists from Israel with all twelve tribal standards, showing the four depicted as I showed for the four in consideration.

Numbers 2 shows that the eastern side of the Tab had three tribes including Ephraim under Ephraim's banner. The north was three tribes including Dan with Dan's banner, the East side had three tribes including Judah with Judah's banner and the south side had three tribes including Reuben with Reuben's banner.

Num 2:3 And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

Num 2:18 On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies: and the captain of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud.

Num 2:25 The standard of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies: and the captain of the children of Dan shall be Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai.

Num 2:10 On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur.

I'm curious as to the source of this graphic and the reasoning behind the selection of each emblem. Until someone else had also asked about this I hadn't really looked at this for many years.

I made the graphic and based it up Hebrew stamps and other information from Israel. The bible is not conclusive about this. But it is beyond coincidence, in my opinion, that the wording of Ezekiel 1 parallels this claim for the placement of the standards around the tabernacle.

[mfblume]

More graphic info.

http://www.rci.org.au/bible_studies/...blemsintro.htm

I think the site is British-Israelistic, but something to consider about the standards.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree cherubims were there in Eden. However, I still feel they are symbolic, showing that past this point in the Garden entrance man had dominion over the kingdoms depicted on the faces.... cattle, beasts and fowl. They show earthly creatures, after all.

You don't think the cherubim in Eden that prevented Adam's entrance were the church? or people? do you? Or that the cherubim atop the ark of the covenant as part of the mercy seat whose wings arched over and touched were people?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sam

You don't think the cherubim in Eden that prevented Adam's entrance were the church? or people? do you? Or that the cherubim atop the ark of the covenant as part of the mercy seat whose wings arched over and touched were people?

No. They stand as emblems of the church. Albeit living emblems.

Check out this study on my website from a friend:

http://mikeblume.com/richm1.htm

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Reuben was the FIRSTBORN.



One can see the standards for all the tribes in Hebrew cultural pics. A stamp exists from Israel with all twelve tribal standards, showing the four depicted as I showed for the four in consideration.

Numbers 2 shows that the eastern side of the Tab had three tribes including Ephraim under Ephraim's banner. The north was three tribes including Dan with Dan's banner, the East side had three tribes including Judah with Judah's banner and the south side had three tribes including Reuben with Reuben's banner.

Num 2:3 And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

Num 2:18 On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies: and the captain of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud.

Num 2:25 The standard of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies: and the captain of the children of Dan shall be Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai.

Num 2:10 On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur.

I made the graphic and based it up Hebrew stamps and other information from Israel. The bible is not conclusive about this. But it is beyond coincidence, in my opinion, that the wording of Ezekiel 1 parallels this claim for the placement of the standards around the tabernacle.

All of the other pieces seem to fit, at least within the parameters of "we don't know for certain." I just had not seen the "man" as the emblem for Reuben before.