Exactly! I know what worked. He helped me through it too! But I also know how helpless someone can feel in the moment. I've never said he should return anyting with evil, so where did you interject that from?
Like the rest of the paragraph above that comment, it was a narrative based on what I learned through my experience. It wasn't directed at you.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
If you understand that they think you are lost by going to a church that doesn't teach the same doctrine, then perhaps, you can look past some of the things they say, knowing why they say them, and show them love and pray the very best God has for them. You have to give an account for your attitude and actions not theirs.
I am praying the best for them and for the church. Like I said I love these people very much.
I will say this one more time. I guess using the word shocked was wrong in my part. Im not shocked they think I have taken a step back nor am I shocked they are praying for me.
1. Im upset they would treat me the way they are since I have been a part of them so long. I thought our relationship was much deeper than that and Im upset I would be labeled as though Im going to burn in hell because I VISITED A CHURCH.
2. For those of you who say Im bashing them for this is incorrect, Im not bashing Im just confused by their actions. Again its ok they are shocked but its NOT OK TO TREAT ME SO BADLY...THAT IS NOT CHRIST LIKE!!
3. I love them and eventually they will see that Im not leaving God just and that I am still as much Christian as I even have been. I dont want there to be hurt between us!
4. SIDE NOTE: People have always know how I feelwhen it comes to the standards of the church, even my pastor but as long as I did as expected I was ok. It was fine I had those opinions as long as I didnt teach them or give my opinion to often but n hell bound...COME ON NOW..REALLY
1. Your the one that broke the relationship by making it known in your actions that you were interested in another church. Imagine you had been dating a girl for a while and then all of a sudden she catches ya flirting with another girl. Thats exactly what ya did.
As far as visiting another church making your salvation questionable to them, you know that holiness standards are not a trivial matter. I'm sure you've heard of people being condemned to hell for wearing makeup, or pants, or not wearing skirts, or having facial hair, or not having long hair. So if you are visiting a church where those holiness standards are not practiced you know that the implication is that you don't want to practice them either. What's more is that you have admitted this. So yes, in their mind you are on the road to hell but its not simply because you visited a church. It's because you are going to stop practicing all those holiness standards.
2. You are bashing them. Of course I don't believe that was your intent but anytime you speak bad about someone that can be considered bashing. Especially when this forum hears these kind of rants quite regularly. Personally I think its great that you have a place where you can talk about what all is going on and get every possible reaction.
As far as them not treating you right, I'm not sure how else they are supposed to treat you? Just not say anything to you or anyone else about what your doing and their opinions about it?
3. I'm sure no one (including them) wants there to be hurt between you and your old church. Its a rare thing for their to be no hurt though. As far as them seeing your not leaving God, they might, but they will never view you as being as great of a Christian as you were when you were keeping the holiness standards.
4. In most standards churches the keyword is obedience. They want you to obey the holiness standards so you can be holy before God. You don't have to understand everything exactly, you just have to do it. It's the same with baptism, you don't have to understand why it is important, you just have to understand that it is. So of course they were okay with you as long as you were obeying.
I am supposed to believe that you have been in leadership in a conservative UPCI church for years now and you are “shocked” that those folks are worried about you since it seems you are “going charismatic”?
Get real dude, you know full well what the attitudes are in conservative circles about those who are more liberal than they are. And if you have been any kind of leader at all, you know the people of your church as well as you know anyone on the planet.
So you are “shocked” because it helps your conscience or you aren’t shocked at all and this is just another chance to “bash the UltraCons”. Or maybe you aren’t in leadership at all. I don’t know which it is but there is a lack of honesty happening here and I suspect you are the one you aren’t being honest with.
Don’t blame these people for you turning your back on them! Yea, I said it! YOU are the one walking away, they haven’t gone anywhere. YOU are rejecting what THEY ARE. It isn’t the other way around. Ostensibly (according to you) you have been teaching these people for years how to act and look. Now you are walking away from your own teaching.
This is about YOU bro. It is not now, nor has it ever been about the people you have been going to church with that aren’t changing.
So here is a bit of advice…. MAN UP. Accept that this is your deal not theirs. Be kind to them and stop acting all shocked that they are shocked and even appalled at your actions. If you are going to make the change, then get with it. Get it done and deal with the fall out and take ownership of your own actions.
1. Your the one that broke the relationship by making it known in your actions that you were interested in another church. Imagine you had been dating a girl for a while and then all of a sudden she catches ya flirting with another girl. Thats exactly what ya did.
As far as visiting another church making your salvation questionable to them, you know that holiness standards are not a trivial matter. I'm sure you've heard of people being condemned to hell for wearing makeup, or pants, or not wearing skirts, or having facial hair, or not having long hair. So if you are visiting a church where those holiness standards are not practiced you know that the implication is that you don't want to practice them either. What's more is that you have admitted this. So yes, in their mind you are on the road to hell but its not simply because you visited a church. It's because you are going to stop practicing all those holiness standards.
2. You are bashing them. Of course I don't believe that was your intent but anytime you speak bad about someone that can be considered bashing. Especially when this forum hears these kind of rants quite regularly. Personally I think its great that you have a place where you can talk about what all is going on and get every possible reaction.
As far as them not treating you right, I'm not sure how else they are supposed to treat you? Just not say anything to you or anyone else about what your doing and their opinions about it?
3. I'm sure no one (including them) wants there to be hurt between you and your old church. Its a rare thing for their to be no hurt though. As far as them seeing your not leaving God, they might, but they will never view you as being as great of a Christian as you were when you were keeping the holiness standards.
4. In most standards churches the keyword is obedience. They want you to obey the holiness standards so you can be holy before God. You don't have to understand everything exactly, you just have to do it. It's the same with baptism, you don't have to understand why it is important, you just have to understand that it is. So of course they were okay with you as long as you were obeying.
hahahahahahaha
You're scolding him for "bashing" conservatives now? Classic.
Irrational responses.
The brother "I'm shocked at how they are treating me."
The forum "Suck up you big baby. You shouldn't be shocked, in fact it's all your fault! You did this!"
The happy place for me: I don't have to regularly fellowship with such callous people.
I don't know why but I just love y'all!!!!!! And yes, I actually pray for people when I tell them I am praying for them!!!!!!!!
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
I'm not a gossip, so the answer is an emphatic no. However, I have expressed concern for people before, mostly to my husband. Obviously people can do things that make you fear they're on the wrong track. I'm not really sure about your point, but generally there are things people can do that can make others concerned about their ultimate salvation. Sometimes those things are obvious, and other times it can be subtle. Of course I have expressed worry about people. Is there something wrong with that?
Wasn't claiming you to be a gossip. Expressing feeling to your husband is the right way to go for sure. Agreed, there are things that can be done to make one person think that the other persons salvation is at stake. It is completely another thing to jump to that conclusion without even speaking with the person. That is what is wrong. There is a way to express worry with out expressing gossip.
[/QUOTE]
I totally disagree with your stance on this. If you are representing the church, then your job is to represent the doctrines and teachings of the church. If something the church teaches is out of line with what parents teach in their home, it is their job to clarify it to their children. If the church asks you to teach something that you can't in good conscience pass along, then respectfully declining is the way to go. [/QUOTE]
If you totally disagree that is your choice, but truth is that things like standards and things are NOT for a youth pastor to teach. Period. Here is what happened to bring me to that realization. I spoke about something that was a typical UPCI standard. The child told the parent what was discussed and I discussed it just as I was told to do. The parent came to me and was NOT happy in the least and said it is not for ME THE YOUTH PASTOR to teach. So the parent and I went to the Pastor and he agreed to have me stop teaching that and apologized for having me do something that I was against from the beginning. So you have your opinion and I have mine, but standards are for the parents to teach and if they won't the church pastor should but ultimately it is up to the parts to teach that. To push that off to 'it is the churches job' to me is basically saying as a parent that it isn't oyur job and you aren't going to do it. A parent is the biggest influence in a childs life, not the church. Pawing something off on the church to teach them is not proper parenting, IMO. (this is NOT directed at you MB) My job is to teach my kids what God wants not to have the church team them what the church wants.
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"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
That sounds great because your only other alternative would be to "TP" all the houses.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
However, I have expressed concern for people before, mostly to my husband. Obviously people can do things that make you fear they're on the wrong track. I'm not really sure about your point, but generally there are things people can do that can make others concerned about their ultimate salvation. Sometimes those things are obvious, and other times it can be subtle. Of course I have expressed worry about people. Is there something wrong with that?
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