No new converts noticed at the AMC Confernce

[Sam]

Originally Posted by GraceAmazing

My favorite contradiction? When my BIL gave my SIL a watch EMBEDDED with LOTS of diamonds, but then turned right around and preached against a wedding band....sorry for my confusion on THAT one!

I'll give you another contradiction.

Years ago a young Apostolic minister proposed to a young lady and she accepted.

He bought her a set of rings (wedding and engagement) plus a wedding band for himself. He had to make payments on them regularly at a local jewelry store.

When he would go into the store, the service desk was at the back of the store so he would have to pass several sales persons on the way as they tried to get him to buy something.

One day on his way through the gauntlet of sales clerks, one of them held up a small chain with a diamond on it and and mentioned how nice it would be to buy that for his wife.

His reply, "We're holiness. We don't wear jewelry."

He said that with a straight face, with a wedding ring on his finger, in a jewelry store, while there to make a payment on a wedding ring and engagement ring.

Name of minister not mentioned to protect the inconsistent.

[Sister Alvear]

Glad we serve a God that has the capacity to see far beyond the natural eye...I feel so out of place among many of my peers that do not wear some types of jewelry...yet all their other fixing up leaves me uncomfortable...not that I think it is wrong I just feel my plainess might cause them to feel uneasy...(does this make sense?)

[Sister Alvear]

yet with those that wear jewelry I do not feel out of place...lol...am I ever one complex person....however it seems they just accept me for who and what I am...

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Sam

I'll give you another contradiction.

Years ago a young Apostolic minister proposed to a young lady and she accepted.

He bought her a set of rings (wedding and engagement) plus a wedding band for himself. He had to make payments on them regularly at a local jewelry store.

When he would go into the store, the service desk was at the back of the store so he would have to pass several sales persons on the way as they tried to get him to buy something.

One day on his way through the gauntlet of sales clerks, one of them held up a small chain with a diamond on it and and mentioned how nice it would be to buy that for his wife.

His reply, "We're holiness. We don't wear jewelry."

He said that with a straight face, with a wedding ring on his finger, in a jewelry store, while there to make a payment on a wedding ring and engagement ring.

Name of minister not mentioned to protect the inconsistent.

Things such as this make us (as in holiness Christians) appear unintelligent. imo

[Sister Alvear]

we ladies are hit on every corner....ha....

[GraceAmazing]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I don't think it's even that 'the world' has preached beauty... I think it's a God-given trait for a woman to want to look beautiful!

And I would agree with that too ...most definitely...

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It's only a contradiction, AQP, if the person in question believes that adornment is wrong. If they DON'T, and they're just obeying the rules that they have to in order to belong to a group (e.g., the UPCI, WPF, etc), then you'll still see them adorning themselves--just not with jewelry, since that's specifically mentioned.

It illustrates the fact that living according to a principle gives different results than living according to a list of rules. If a woman likes adornment, and likes pretty, fancy things--she's going to find a way to wear them, and still obey the rules she's been given.

My pastor preached about convictions recently, and he stated that "Your conduct reveals your convictions." Very true. You don't have to ask people what their convictions are. If they're against adornment, they'll dress plainly. If they're not, they won't--whether they have on jewelry or not.

I have a difficult time being hard on a group of women whose husbands and pastors have given them a list of rules, and so they are doing their best to look beautiful within their boundaries and culture. It isn't always their personal inconsistency that's showing.

Since you don't believe that adornment is a sin, then I would assume you're not condemning anyone for adorning themselves. In order to then condemn people for inconsistency, you'd have to assume that they, individually, believe that adornment is wrong, but do it anyway in innocuous ways. I would propose that their convictions are revealed by their actions, and that they don't believe adornment is wrong at all. The apparent inconsistency isn't personal, but imposed by a third party.

Here's my deal: I go to a UPCI church, so there are certain things I have to comply with, like it or not. However, the rules I don't agree with--I just obey them to the letter. I don't try to apply some related principle, because I don't think there is one. I'm perfectly fine with finding loopholes--because I don't embrace a broad principle behind the rule. (Such as the one regarding jewelry--I, like many other women I know, own blouses or sweaters with jewelry sewn on .) When I go to conference or special events, I have to dress more conservatively than I do on a normal basis. That's my paradigm. However, I have a personal set of core convictions that I don't waver from, no matter where we are--and several of those are things that the UPC org. doesn't hold.

Sooooo...it would sting a bit for someone to think I was being inconsistent to wear a big flower in my hair as opposed to a tiara, because I have nothing against tiaras either. (Except that I don't think it would be very tasteful, but that's neither here nor there.) In order to apply the "inconsistent" label, you'd have to first assume that I'm opposed to tiaras.

Do you really believe that most women have thought it through to the degree you have? I have zero poll data to go by, but what I have physically seen tells a different story. I see women (mostly -just the ones I noticed and probably DON'T notice the truly humble ones, so I will grant you that) who are extremely proud of their holiness by following their pastors laws to the T yet ignoring anything resembling an actual principle as they strut around on their personal red carpet trying to outdo the other women who have shown up in similar attire and hair styles. Obviously I do not believe there is anything inherently wrong with jewelry or nice stylish clothing or hairstyles but the piousness that seems to be present in many cases isn't about someone saying "I don't agree with this but will follow because it is our church's rules" but rather a very real "I am Holy! Look at me! Look how Holy I am! Take that ladies!".

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Do you really believe that most women have thought it through to the degree you have? I have zero poll data to go by, but what I have physically seen tells a different story. I see women (mostly -just the ones I noticed and probably DON'T notice the truly humble ones, so I will grant you that) who are extremely proud of their holiness by following their pastors laws to the T yet ignoring anything resembling an actual principle as they strut around on their personal red carpet trying to outdo the other women who have shown up in similar attire and hair styles. Obviously I do not believe there is anything inherently wrong with jewelry or nice stylish clothing or hairstyles but the piousness that seems to be present in many cases isn't about someone saying "I don't agree with this but will follow because it is our church's rules" but rather a very real "I am Holy! Look at me! Look how Holy I am! Take that ladies!".

No, Randy, I don't believe the majority feel that way. There are some--no doubt about it, but we need to be careful about projecting motives and feelings onto other people when we can't really know that's how they feel. I'm okay with observing the outward and commenting on it; I'm not okay with trying to sort out the inside, since we have no way to see into hearts and minds--which leaves us being presumptuous.

Whether a person has "thought it through" or not still doesn't mean they're putting a lot of meaning into their religious practices. Usually it's a matter of it being a list of rules, and any particular meaning is often inferred by the church or the organization. (e.g., a minister getting up and talking about how special we are because we look different, or how much more spiritual we are because we have lots of rules.)

[Cindy]

We are children of THE KING!!!!! We should be adorned with HIS righteousness. Why do some care what others are wearing or not wearing. I agree with Sister Alvear, they can be dressed very beautifully on the outside, but inside is darkness and hatefulness. I hope no one ever looks at me and thinks, wow who does she think she is?

[Dora]

The tendency for women to enjoy being girly girls and decking out in the finest clothes and hairstyles is completely COOL with me. While I was a UPCer, I wore gravity defying hairstyles and the finest clothes I could afford. UPCers can find amazing bargains on designer clothing. We knew classy styles and had a great time wearing them to conferences, church functions, etc. Nothing wrong with women wanting to look good.

My point is that their efforts to conform to the standards set by their authority figures have led these women to "adorn" themselves in a manner that calls undue negative attention to them. How is this supposed to glorify God and bring others to salvation? I just don't get it....Lord help!