Are Trinitarians Saved? - Page 3

Evang.Benincasa · #21 05-19-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Your belief that Jesus is the Messiah is considered idolatry blasphemy to Rabbinical Jews.

No, your idea that the messiah is God, or that a man called Jesus is God is blasphemy. They think we worship a man.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Jeffrey · #22 05-19-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Excuse me, but have you ever heard of James White, and Cal Beisner?

The late Dr D James Kennedy? These indivviduals teach and have written books that One God Jesus name believers aren't saved. While your run of the mill church goer really doeesn't care about the Trinity, their pastors do.
Brother N Urshan wouldn't call Trinitarian Walter Martin a Brother in Christ, because Walter Martin believed and taught that One God Jesus Name Apostolics were heretics. This isn't personal, it is doctrinal, and therefore those seeking to convert to Christianity are trying to figure out who is following what is written in the Bible. American churchanity has become so politically correct that no one believes that anyone is going to hell. Unless, we don't like them, or they tell us we are going to hell, then they're fair game.
Yet, if they are Trinitarians, Baptists, Church of Chirst, or whatever other denomination they might get to heaven, by default.

American Churchanity gets looser, and looser as the years roll on.

EB, I think many of these are changing their tune now on calling Oneness believers unsaved. I believe they genuinely think they are in error, but do not seem them on the verge of being lost, mostly because they accept that Jesus is both human and divine, as the Son of God.

I don't see how we can dogmatize the godhead in such a way as to say who is going to heaven or hell. Too many variations. In reality, I could never say who is or who isn't. But for sake of this scenario, I can quite comfortably say the way two individuals differently, cognitively understand how the godhead works is not a matter of salvation.

Evang.Benincasa · #23 05-19-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soldoutochrist

Trinitarians are not your brothers and sisters. I do consider them to be mine.

Unless you have Scripture that says that they will be in hell, I don't understand how you're making this claim.

Do you consider religious Jews to be your Brothers and Sisters?

Just asking.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Evang.Benincasa · #24 05-19-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

EB, I think many of these are changing their tune now on calling Oneness believers unsaved. I believe they genuinely think they are in error, but do not seem them on the verge of being lost, mostly because they accept that Jesus is both human and divine, as the Son of God.

Cal Beisner and James White still to this day believe that we are as lost as Muslims. The Presbyterians are staunch with their anti-Apostolic Pentecostal stance. The late Dr D James Kennedy, believed that we were lost for denying the Orthodox view of the Trinity. I had a discussion with a friend of mine who is Eastern Orthodox, he allowed me to have the discussion with him at on of their Bible classes. I presented One God Apostolic Pentecostalism and he presented the opposing view. They hold dogmatically to the Trinity, although they believe in the Trinity differently than the Roman Catholics, they still believe that a belief in the Trinity is important for salvation. You will be surprised that Southern Baptist also believe an importance in a belief in the Trinity. While some One God Pentecostals would like to welcome Trinitarians aand call them next of kin, they are not looking to fellowship, but to eventually convert us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I don't see how we can dogmatize the godhead in such a way as to say who is going to heaven or hell.

Think about this, Paul makes mention of another Jesus, and another spirit, and another gospel. Trinitarian isn't the only different view, that teaches a subordinate Jesus. Or that the godhead is sectioned off into individuals.
In every religion you will find schisms, and break offs. Even in the time of Paul and the other apostles there were divisions. Are we so wrong when we as the early church try to weed out false teachers and false teachings? the Apostle Peter called what the false teachers taught damnable heresy.
Sometimes in our quest to be nicer than Jesus we lose teaching sound doctrine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Too many variations. In reality, I could never say who is or who isn't. But for sake of this scenario, I can quite comfortably say the way two individuals differently, cognitively understand how the godhead works is not a matter of salvation.

So, what would be earnestly contending for the Faith, that was delivered unto the first century saints? If this is really that hit and miss, why did the Bible writer commend the church for earnestly contending for "THE FAITH?"

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Jeffrey · #25 05-19-2010, 04:50 PM

EB, thanks for the reply. Based on your observations, it is obviously true that many Trinitarians consider the Trinity essential for salvation. I would say there are also many who do not. I received a letter from a popular ministry group on the subject, as we discussed godhead. They believed because we accepted Jesus as Divine and human, as the Son of God, to not be heretical (although they were adamant we were in error).

"The Faith" is a connection to the Gospel. Everything that Jesus said. "I am my Father am One." That He is the Messiah, God in flesh.

Paul's mention of "another Jesus" (2 Corinthians 11:4), is also in the context of "another Gospel" and "another spirit." His detractors were either Judaizers, which had less to do with godhead than it did salvation by and through the Law, or they were Gnostics, who didn't believe Jesus to be fully human at all, thus denying the reality that He was the Son of God.

Jeffrey · #26 05-19-2010, 04:52 PM

"If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God." 1 John 4:15

1 John 4:2-3 (addressed concerning gnostic "false prophets")
This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet[a] acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. 3 But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.

pelathais · #27 05-19-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, your idea that the messiah is God, or that a man called Jesus is God is blasphemy. They think we worship a man.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Do you worship Jesus?

DAII · #28 05-19-2010, 05:19 PM

Beisner changed his position that Oneness are lost since the late 70's? On the Ankerberg Show he states that a believer can be confused but anyone who believes on Christ is his brother ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq00L...eature=related

Evang.Benincasa · #29 05-19-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

Beisner changed his position that Oneness are lost since the late 70's? On the Ankerberg Show he states that a believer can be confused but anyone who believes on Christ is his brother ....

Cal Beisner changed his views since the 70s? Based on what? Can you prove that? What about James White, did he also change his view?