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  #91  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:20 AM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by allstate1 View Post
So are you telling me if someone lets say a good ole Southern Baptist boy has obeyed Acts 2:38 and is now looking into the Oneness doctrine but has not yet full understood it or believed it yet is lost??!!
The list grows longer and longer. And if their wife is still trimming, she's not really saved either.
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  #92  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:24 AM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by Joey Boneski View Post
Matthew 7

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
This is about the 10th time I've seen someone reference Matthew 7 this week, to suit their argument. It's language of parable that meant something very unique to this Jewish audience. Build your house on my teachings is the bottom line here.

Also, "knowing them by their fruits" is the oft-overused argument against young men/women that leave churches but don't have 1,000 member congregations. Preachers call that "Fruit." Unfortunately, at the end of this parable, these men proclaimed their fruit as "laying hands" and "casting out devils" but Jesus didn't know them. What's in view here is not what you've accomplished, but how you behave. How you are showing Jesus. How you portray love. That's fruit.
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  #93  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:26 AM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
"in the name of the Lord" or "in the name of Jesus Christ" etc mean "as authorized by the Lord" or "by His authority."

We actually have no record in our Bibles of what words (if any) were spoken when the baptismal ritual was done.

We ASSUME that since it was done in the Lord's name/authority, that the name was actually spoken.
CORRECT!

Most common way it was done was "into the name of the Lord Jesus."

But to say "we see they did it like this" and therefore "you aren't saved unless you've said it exactly the same" is once again making a descriptive passage something it's not, prescriptive.
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  #94  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:27 AM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by Joey Boneski View Post
Who is your Lord? Why not take his name in baptism instead of a title? Jesus is my lord and I have taken his name in baptism.....as instructed.
We all "take on the authority and identity of our Lord in baptism." That's what the whole event is about. We aren't there because we won the lottery. We are in the tank because we expressed faith in Jesus.

I agree with the tradition of including the name, but to be dogmatic about it is trivial to say the least. You aren't disqualified because you were baptized unto Allah, when you just came to Jesus and are being baptized. You, of course, are being baptized into Jesus.
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  #95  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:33 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

Belief in the Trinity doesn't automatically ........ anyone.

Belief in the Oneness view doesn't automatically save anyone.


The same folks who work overtime to keep folks out of Heaven forget that the only way they are going themselves is out of the kindness of someone else-- that is if they themselves are even going.
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  #96  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:49 AM
Joey Boneski Joey Boneski is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Belief in the Trinity doesn't automatically ........ anyone.

Belief in the Oneness view doesn't automatically save anyone.


The same folks who work overtime to keep folks out of Heaven forget that the only way they are going themselves is out of the kindness of someone else-- that is if they themselves are even going.
There are some who are working overtime to keep others out of heaven to justify their own shortcomings...but there are also others who are working overtime because they believe others will perish without hearing the gospel. Only Jesus knows the truth but if I wholeheartedly believe and fail to share it places me in the same box as the ones keeping others out. I'm speaking of the oneness/trinity issue which I believe to be a salvation one.
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  #97  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:53 AM
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jfrog jfrog is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by Joey Boneski View Post
Who is your Lord? The name of the Lord was not in debate..and it says in Acts in the name of the Lord Jesus also...Do you really believe in being baptized "in the name of the Lord" without using his name Jesus?
Yes I do.

Last edited by jfrog; 05-20-2010 at 10:55 AM.
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  #98  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:55 AM
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StillStanding StillStanding is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

To believe Trinitarians are going to Hell, you must believe that ultimate judgment depends on how we perceive the God of the Old and New Testament to be in our minds. You must believe that simply believing in Christ and following his commandments are not enough. You must also have a perfect perception of who he is!

Does anyone have it down pat? Has anyone perfected who God is and how he works?

1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
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  #99  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
Yes I do.
I agree! I don't believe that there are any magic words that must be said at baptism. I do believe that one must be baptized in the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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  #100  
Old 05-20-2010, 11:01 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?

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Originally Posted by Joey Boneski View Post
There are some who are working overtime to keep others out of heaven to justify their own shortcomings...but there are also others who are working overtime because they believe others will perish without hearing the gospel. Only Jesus knows the truth but if I wholeheartedly believe and fail to share it places me in the same box as the ones keeping others out. I'm speaking of the oneness/trinity issue which I believe to be a salvation one.


Joey,

Sincerely, you believe that Holy Spirit filled Trinitarians are going to hell?

So what will God do-- let them live Holy Spirit led lives and right before their death, remove the Holy Spirit from them so that they go to hell, void of the Spirit of God?

Or do you believe that these genuinely Holy Spirit filled Trinitarians will go to hell, while filled with the Holy Spirit?
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