Are Trinitarians Saved? - Page 13

pelathais · #**121** 05-20-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You haven't been around the right Trinitarians. I have heard all kinds of stuff from Trinitarians including that OPs are going to hell

Trinitarians send everyone to hell. Their own creed says you have to believe in the Trinity!!! Why is that???!!!

Sectarianism is rife and has a stern history. I think that much of what you are referring to was the dogma of one particular institution as it sought to extend its control over all of Christendom.

Given their agenda, it's only natural that much of the language associated with the power grabs is going to be exclusivistic. You wouldn't suggest that we follow suit, would you?

jfrog · #**122** 05-20-2010, 01:27 PM

It has came to my attention that many other versions translate Acts 10:48 as in the name of Jesus Christ...

pelathais · #**123** 05-20-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Boneski

yes..and i believe they submerged them in water, they probably were wearing robes, the water was cold, and many other things that they didnt actually say in that scripture. It was Jesus name before and after that scripture so I don't have any reason to doubt it. Jesus is the name of our Lord.

The men were likely naked - or nearly so. The water in Caesarea would have been comfortably warm - even the drinking water would have been.

The command to be "baptized in Jesus' name" in all likelihood wasn't understood as a command for a particular incantation as the Roman Church would develop Matthew 28:19, into later. They would have instead seen themselves as being "born" (again) into a fellowship that followed the teachings of a particular Jewish rabbi of that name.

pelathais · #**124** 05-20-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

It has came to my attention that many other versions translate Acts 10:48 as in the name of Jesus Christ...

The Cakchiquel Occidental version says:

"48 Y ri Pedro xubij cˈa chi ri Cornelio y quinojel ri quimolon quiˈ riqˈui, queban cˈa bautizar pa rubiˈ ri Ajaf Jesús. Y ri kachˈalal ri xeban bautizar, xquicˈutuj cˈa jun utzil chare ri Pedro chi ticˈojeˈ ka caˈiˈ oxiˈ kˈij quiqˈui."

... so you do have a point.

jfrog · #**125** 05-20-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

The Cakchiquel Occidental version says:

"48 Y ri Pedro xubij cˈa chi ri Cornelio y quinojel ri quimolon quiˈ riqˈui, queban cˈa bautizar pa rubiˈ ri Ajaf Jesús. Y ri kachˈalal ri xeban bautizar, xquicˈutuj cˈa jun utzil chare ri Pedro chi ticˈojeˈ ka caˈiˈ oxiˈ kˈij quiqˈui."

... so you do have a point.

yep... I bolded it for all too see. By the way I'm just acting like I know whats going on!!!

pelathais · #**126** 05-20-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

yep... I bolded it for all too see. By the way I'm just acting like I know whats going on!!!

It says it right there. Plain as day.

Joey Boneski · #**127** 05-20-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

The men were likely naked - or nearly so. The water in Caesarea would have been comfortably warm - even the drinking water would have been.

The command to be "baptized in Jesus' name" in all likelihood wasn't understood as a command for a particular incantation as the Roman Church would develop Matthew 28:19, into later. They would have instead seen themselves as being "born" (again) into a fellowship that followed the teachings of a particular Jewish rabbi of that name.

I was waiting to see who would be the first to argue the water temp and clothing...you can argue with a stop sign about the colors, height, and shape of it but it still says STOP...guess some day in the future someone will say it meant something else.

Apocrypha · #**128** 05-20-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Excuse me, but have you ever heard of James White, and Cal Beisner?

The late Dr D James Kennedy? These indivviduals teach and have written books that One God Jesus name believers aren't saved. While your run of the mill church goer really doeesn't care about the Trinity, their pastors do.
Brother N Urshan wouldn't call Trinitarian Walter Martin a Brother in Christ, because Walter Martin believed and taught that One God Jesus Name Apostolics were heretics. This isn't personal, it is doctrinal, and therefore those seeking to convert to Christianity are trying to figure out who is following what is written in the Bible. American churchanity has become so politically correct that no one believes that anyone is going to hell. Unless, we don't like them, or they tell us we are going to hell, then they're fair game.
Yet, if they are Trinitarians, Baptists, Church of Chirst, or whatever other denomination they might get to heaven, by default.

American Churchanity gets looser, and looser as the years roll on.

I've watched that debate more than once, its actually on youtube in its entire playout.

If you look at NAU he didn't look very confident when he did that, he was squirming. Quite simply if he said "yes" he was political dead meat in 5 seconds flat in the UPCI and would have cut his General Superintendency short by about 20 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQdU...x=0&playnext=1

StillStanding · #**129** 05-20-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please note... they didn't have a Oneness liturgy wherein they spoke the name of Jesus over the repentant believer. In fact, the ones doing the baptizing weren't bound to say anything at all. It was the person being baptized that was to call upon the name of the Lord...

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Some stupid preacher could call out the names of Larry, Moe, and Curly over you when you're being baptized... but if you're calling upon the name of the Lord it's effectual. On the flip side... some preacher could call out the name of Jesus over you a thousand times while you're being baptized, but if you're not calling on the name of the Lord, you're only getting wet.

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Some use the above scripture to mean that the name of Jesus Christ is "called" upon you at baptism. Seems like a stretch to me.

The idea of the one being baptized saying the words at baptism makes more sense (if exact words matter), because then they are responsible for their own salvation without a 3rd party being involved. I hate to think of some innocent believer in Jesus Christ going to hell because of something someone else said.

I still say that the most important part of baptism is in who's authority the baptism is being done in, not the actual words spoken.

pelathais · #**130** 05-20-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Boneski

I was waiting to see who would be the first to argue the water temp and clothing...you can argue with a stop sign about the colors, height, and shape of it but it still says STOP...guess some day in the future someone will say it meant something else.

Why would you say that?