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05-25-2010, 10:11 AM
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
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Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*
What - that holiness doesn't equal salvation?
Well, that's been discussed around here plenty, hasn't it?  |
LOL! yeah never been yelled about that much. Hafta go waaaay back in the archives for that one. LOL
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05-25-2010, 10:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
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Originally Posted by TheLegalist
Holiness is a work of God just as ALL LAW/RIGHTEOUSNESS is a work of God. We have commandments to obey to abide in which HE declares us faithful.
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I see you your introducing your own theology into this. But it's really not that complex IMO, TL. We obey God. The commands he's given are written on our heart. Explicitly, they revolve around love. We are to avoid fornication, adultery, murder, envy, lust, greed, coveting, etc... I can spend my whole life working on getting things like envy, lust and greed down -- meanwhile, others insert, on behalf of God, their own list and demand obedience or else.
But Sanctification/Holiness is not a matter of me doing good things. It must be a work of the Spirit in me. Otherwise, being a Boy Scout makes one holy.
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05-25-2010, 10:14 AM
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Ravaged by Grace
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey
Certainly my brother's own right to practice his faith in this way.
I think his point was feeding the beast of lust, until it overtakes you. Walking through a mall and incidentally seeing inappropriate dress is only one part of the problem. Choosing to watch late-night HBO "sexy" shows is much different than incidental "walking through life." Surely you see the difference.
If you have a problem with lust, I don't believe you'll ever be completely exempt from that struggle. Instead, you learn to make choices that keep Jesus as LORD and not the idol of lust. Since most men are visual, our visual entertainment should be considered, and what situations we bring into our home should be considered as well.
Grace, yes. But asking for God's grace when He's given a "way of escape" is somewhat redundant and foolish, NOW. So not following your point through.
A hearty "amen" to your concluding statement here. 
I hear this quote often. Usually right after a preacher has taught on standards. It's manipulative. |
The point very clearly was this...if one has a problem with lust, throwing the TV out the front door won't make one bit of difference. Jeffrey, one can disconnect his entire life but if lust is a problem, it will still be a problem!
How much TV had Amnon been watching before he raped his half-sister, Tamar? How much provocative, "worldly" entertainment had the young guy in I Corinthians 5 been participating in when he had sex with his mother-in-law?
I believe it's foolish to think that we can every "get rid of stuff" and get closer to God.
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05-25-2010, 10:14 AM
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Sister Alvear
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 27,042
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
Most of the controversies, which arise between men who fear God, spring from the hurry with which some of them find fault with what they have not yet examined, and speak evil of what they do not understand."
- John Fletcher
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05-25-2010, 10:15 AM
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
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Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*
There is definitely a lot of garbage on television. But there is also a lot that is not garbage. Especially with the advent of cable. I've found enough decent shows that I don't have time to watch them all. So it's very possible to watch tv in moderation and not once watch filth.
You can even get a TVGuardian if you want to, or a Clearplay machine. They'll filter out inappropriate content. Works as well as an internet filter.
Really, is the spirit of God inside of us completely overpowered by a television? I think the Holy Spirit is strong enough to speak to us even concerning television.
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It has gotten better in some respects. Even then I have noticed a lot of doctrines that are not filtered out that should be toward our kids and even adults. New Age views here and there that tend to form opinion. It would amaze you at the little stuff we miss that goesright by us that iscontrary to his Word but boy do kids pick it up. I think it's do to us having experience in many ways and a natural filter after time we just ignore it.
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05-25-2010, 10:16 AM
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Ravaged by Grace
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
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Originally Posted by Pragmatist
Excellent post.
And I always think it's funny when people go off on TV b/c it's dropping greatly in viewership. Young people today spend WAY more time on the internet (which of course, is okay).
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Thank you! I'm just bummed that my great literary, well-thought-out diatribe will instantly be buried in a thread like this! 
But you're right about the internet! I know he (proud-guy) was dismissive of the "internet argument" but how anyone can condemn TV while typing on the internet is completely baffling.
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05-25-2010, 10:19 AM
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey
I see you your introducing your own theology into this. But it's really not that complex IMO, TL. We obey God. The commands he's given are written on our heart. Explicitly, they revolve around love. We are to avoid fornication, adultery, murder, envy, lust, greed, coveting, etc... I can spend my whole life working on getting things like envy, lust and greed down -- meanwhile, others insert, on behalf of God, their own list and demand obedience or else.
But Sanctification/Holiness is not a matter of me doing good things. It must be a work of the Spirit in me. Otherwise, being a Boy Scout makes one holy.
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we agree on that in part and you know that BUT I never said it wasn't about the role of the HS in your life WHICH IS THE POWER/GRACE over sin of which he bears witness by doing his will from the heart. Works outside of God are the works Paul is talking about which I have said forever otherwise you make baptism meaningless with no true spiritual meaning.
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05-25-2010, 10:20 AM
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Registered Member
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
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05-25-2010, 10:22 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks
The point very clearly was this...if one has a problem with lust, throwing the TV out the front door won't make one bit of difference. Jeffrey, one can disconnect his entire life but if lust is a problem, it will still be a problem!
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Sure it will. How won't it? If I am an alcoholic, staying away from hanging out in bars is probably a good way to avoid falling back into alcoholism. Or... to be more correct, having liquor in my home is probably a good way to avoid the trap. That doesn't mean I'm no longer inclined to alcohol. But because Jesus is LORD, and nothing else is more important, I make no provision for the flesh in that instance.
Not sure how you could argue a person battling lust wouldn't be better off throwing the TV out. Not that I advocate that. I think there are other alternatives with the TV, but if a brother feels that will help, I certainly think it can. Overcoming lust is done by the Spirit working in us to produce good works. But much of our interference with God's good work is nestled in habits we've created over years and years. So I would assume discipline has some value. In itself, it creates moralism. Accompanied by the Spirit, it brings humility to the cross.
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How much TV had Amnon been watching before he raped his half-sister, Tamar? How much provocative, "worldly" entertainment had the young guy in I Corinthians 5 been participating in when he had sex with his mother-in-law?
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Your point only means that lust has always existed. No one is arguing that. Some actions we do and things we bring to our home cater to our weaknesses and not our more noble parts. As far as Amnon, I'm not sure all his evil habits. I'm not sure how much fooling around he had done before that. I'm not sure how often he watched the women bathe like David did with Bathsheba. Who can be sure. None of that overrides the point that a person battling with lust can change things in their environment that don't feed their struggle.
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I believe it's foolish to think that we can every "get rid of stuff" and get closer to God.
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I don't.
If by itself, then yes. It's just moralism and self-righteousness.
If in humility, by the Spirit, it's sanctification in real-time.
Doing nothing is spiritual laziness. Continuing habits because grace "doth abound" is what Paul called foolish.
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