Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is God?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Timmy

I voted Yes because I have seen some who I think call themselves Apostolic say that the man Jesus Christ was not God. Somewhere in the Debate Room, I think. Also, I can imagine it would not be that difficult to justify that view Biblically, including the Apostles' writings. Not necessarily correctly, but it can be done to someone's own satisfaction, just as many other doctrines can be and have been.

The flesh of Jesus was not Divine.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, Isaiah 9:6 says that the child who is born is the Son who is given and He's also the Mighty God and the Everlasting Father.

And the Holy Spirit is called "Christ in you" (Colossians 1:27); "the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:19); "the Spirit of Jesus" (Acts 16:7); "the Spirit of the Lord" (2 Corinthians 3:17); and Jesus did say that He was the Comforter who was with them but would also be the Comforter in them (John 14:16-18)

So, isn't Jesus the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost?

Very good Sam!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

who voted yes and why? can someone explain?

Yes, for the same reason you can't be a Trinitarian and deny the Trinity or the Deity of Christ.

Historically Apostolics (Oneness Pentecostals) have been built on the foundation of God is unipersonal, not Tripersonal. Jesus is that God. Baptism in Jesus name and tongues is evidence of the Holy Ghost baptism

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes, for the same reason you can't be a Trinitarian and deny the Trinity or the Deity of Christ.

Historically Apostolics (Oneness Pentecostals) have been built on the foundation of God is unipersonal, not Tripersonal. Jesus is that God. Baptism in Jesus name and tongues is evidence of the Holy Ghost baptism

The reason you got a few yes's is because everyones definition of apostolic is different. As Timmy said, there have been some on here that claim to be apostolic and deny Jesus is God. I voted no because I felt your question had the historical apostolic definition in mind. If I had felt that you were using apostolic simply to mean to follow the teachings of the apostles then I would not have voted no.

[Hoovie]

No - not possible. The deity of Christ is an absolute foundational concept of the Christian Faith.

There is plenty of scripture affirming that Christ is God Almighty.

The secondary discussion here is one of terms more than essence - (should Jesus be referred to as the Father of the Son because of His deity?)

While Jesus claimed to be God, and even the "Father of Eternity" he never referred to Himself as the Father of the Only Begotten Son.

The Father is God apart from the incarnation. Jesus the Only Begotten, is that same God as he relates to creation and humanity in and through the incarnation.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jfrog

The reason you got a few yes's is because everyones definition of apostolic is different. As Timmy said, there have been some on here that claim to be apostolic and deny Jesus is God. I voted no because I felt your question had the historical apostolic definition in mind. If I had felt that you were using apostolic simply to mean to follow the teachings of the apostles then I would not have voted no.

Still, there are some that claim to believe in the trinity but their theology is actually Modalistic. Trinitarians I know of will say they are not really Trinitarians. They are modalists.

So historically speaking, as you rightly say, and as penned by past and current Oneness Scholars on the topic, Jesus is God.

So someone that claims to be Oneness and denies the Deity of Jesus Christ, that He is just a man, are not Oneness Pentecostals. They are Unitarian Pentecostals (assuming they believe in the baptism of the Spirit/tongues).

I have to wonder though, if they believe in baptism in Jesus name, how they explain the verse in Mat 28 and the verses in Acts. Oneness/Apostolics typically argue "Jesus" is the name of the Father, Son and Spirit Yet they say Jesus is not God??

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Still, there are some that claim to believe in the trinity but their theology is actually Modalistic. Trinitarians I know of will say they are not really Trinitarians. They are modalists.

So historically speaking, as you rightly say, and as penned by past and current Oneness Scholars on the topic, Jesus is God.

So someone that claims to be Oneness and denies the Deity of Jesus Christ, that He is just a man, are not Oneness Pentecostals. They are Unitarian Pentecostals (assuming they believe in the baptism of the Spirit/tongues).

I have to wonder though, if they believe in baptism in Jesus name, how they explain the verse in Mat 28 and the verses in Acts. Oneness/Apostolics typically argue "Jesus" is the name of the Father, Son and Spirit Yet they say Jesus is not God??

I would imagine they would say something along the lines: "If you have the Son you have the Father also."

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I voted that I don't know...

But the interesting part is that I believe Jesus is God, but I don't think anyone would call me Apostolic. But hey...finally something I can agree with you all about!

You're such a "heathen."

But, "I don't know" just seems to me to be a very good place to start on most any issue. Some of us have had to spend years "knowing" everything before we finally learned about the grace that is found in "I don't know."

[Nina]

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (he), ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24


I believe that a Jesus who is any less than God cannot atone for the sins of the world.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Nina

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (he), ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24


I believe that a Jesus who is any less than God cannot atone for the sins of the world.

Amen!