Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Sanctuary > Deep Waters
Facebook

Notices

Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #531  
Old 04-28-2007, 09:12 AM
Steve Epley's Avatar
Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Here is Bro Elpey's list I copied to my harddrive from the GNC awhile ago.

More on “Eis” in Acts 2:38 (GNC)

Nothing in the NT speaks of the blood 'being applied" the blood was shed at Calvary and through faith in the shed blood I recieve:
1. Forgiveness of sins at repentance
2. Remission of sins at baptism
3. The life of the the Blood in th baptism of the Holy Ghost.
In the Tabernacle the "WALK" that began at the brazen altar had blood sprinkled on every piece of furniture thus in every aspect of our 'walk' the priest came in contact with that which was sanctified by the blood. So I concur with your thoughts.
Faith in his blood procurs each and every aspect of our salvation WHEN we BY faith OBEY His word.

Translations that for the word "UNTO" for the word "eis" in Acts 2:38:
Amercian Standard version
English Revised version(1881) Johnannes Lauritzen Translation
American Bible Union NT Modern King James Version (Green)
E.e. Cunnington Translation The Living Scriptures (Green)
George Swann Translation A. S. Worrell Translations
Modern Reader's Bible(Monton) Westministers(Cuthbert-Lattery)
Numeric New Testament(Panin) W. B. Godbey Translation

I found on paper the article I told you of this woman sent Acts 2:38 to these noted college professors asking them if "eis" could mean 'because of" in the passage.
Here are the replies:
1.Frederick M. Combellack, University of Oregon
"The Greek proposition "eis" is NOT used to express cause. One of it's common uses is to express purpose. That is the usage illustrated in the passage you quote from Acts 2:38. Peter means "Let each of you be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ FOR THE PRUPOSE of the remission of yours sins."
2. J.B. McDiarmid, Executive Officier, University of Washington, Department of Classics, Seattle,
"Thank you for your letter of November 4, I think that "eis" NEVER means
"because of" in the sense "as the result of." It may mean "because of" in the sense of "with a veiw to." as apparently it does in this passage. That it may express the end either literal or figurative TOWARD which the action tends. In this passage the remission of sins is the END of the act of baptism."
3. Robert B. Cross, Department of Greek and Latin, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, Ca.
"As far as I am able to determine "eis" in the New Testament at any rate can ONLY be translated by such a phrase as "for the purpose of" in order to accomplish and the like. It could be translated "because of" in the sense of "for the purpose of" or "for the cause of" -which means exactly the same thing. It could NEVER mean "because of" in the sense of "on account of."
MORE TO COME!
4. John L. Heller, Professor of the Classics, University of Illinois,"I do NOT believe that "eis" over means "because of" and certainly NOT in the passage you quote: "Peter said unto them Repent and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the sake of forgiveness of your sins" Here "eis" is certainly NOT causal but final, meaning "for the purpose of" in order to recieve."
5. John V. A. Fine, Department of Classics, Princeton University, Princeton NJ.
" To the best of my knowledge "eis" CANNOT mean "because of". It does not express cause but frequently expressed purpose. Acts 2:38 I shall translate(literally) as follows: "And Peter said unto them Repent and let each of you be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins."
6. Warren E. Lake, Professor of Greek Language and Literature, Dept. of Greek, University of Michigan,
" The proposition "eis" can never have the force of 'because of' at any period of the langauge. Its primary meaning is ALWAYS "to" into" in the NT and Modern Greek "in". It is used in thie passage in the metaphorical sense of "limit of motion" , i.e. "be bapitized unto or with a view to" remission of sins . "This se is fairly frequent in NT particularly with the articular infinitive. Cf. Rom.3:25, Mt.20:19, Rom.1:11, 1Cor. 9:28 etc.
7. E. Bundy, Asst. Prof. of Classics, University of Berkley, Berkley, Ca.
"The preposition denotes 'purpose' "For the remittance of your sins" or with a veiw to the remitt etc. or "in order to(gain) remittance" or some such expression. Peter said unto them Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remittance of your sins.." Eis" could ONLY be translated because of means purpose.
8. Henry B. Dewing, Bowdoin College and President of Athens College, Athens Greece,
" I should say that "eis" indicates not a result or consequence but rather END or design. I should translate "Let everyone of you baptized (the attainment of) forgiveness of sins..." The meaning 'because of" is UTTERLY OUT OF THE QUESTION.(emphasis mine) Professor of Athen's College mind you.
9. Henry Darling Brackett, Professor of Greek, Clark College
"In order to" but "for the purpose of" is better, because the fundamental universal meaning of "eis" is "toward" into" in the direction of" and NOT "out of' "arising from" or "because of".
10. Frank Hugh Foster, Instructor of New Testament Greek, Oberlin Graduate School of Theology
"The meaning of "eis" may be either of two things, either to indicate the purpose..or to indicate the result. In the first place it would be translated "in order to gain" in the second with the result of, the preposition "eis"
NEVER means because of.
11. E.A. Nida, member of Editorial board of "The Bible Translator." Vol. 3, no. 3, July 1952
"Repent and be baptized" and "sins are forgiven." Our problem at this point is to determine the relationship of these two expressions as we find it indicated in the Greek preposition "eis" usually translated "into" but having a variety of meanings including "unto" "for" "in" regards to." It is not easy to determine the precise relationships between these processes. We may regard the Greek "eis" as resultive,i.e.-the "baptism of repentance"results in forgiveness of sins. However "eis" could also designate the purpose of the baptism....In English we can use the ambiguous conjunctive phrase "so that" and translate the portion of the verse as "repent and be baptized so that their sins may be forgiven." The use of "so that...may" still leabes so ambiguity, as between purpose and result, but the principle emphasis is upon purpose.
12. Professor Flagg, Cornell University,"In respect to your inquiry about the force of the preposition "eis" in the passage of the NT to which you refer(Acts2:38), I should say that it denoted intent or purpose with a veiw to, much as if it has been written, "so as to obtain the remission of sins."

13. J. H. Huddleston, Professor of Greek, University of Maine
"Peter spoke to them "repent and let each one of you be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ to the end (that there may be) delivery from your sins."EIS" CANNOT mean 'because of' but as often in the NT "for the purpose of."
14. Edgar J. Goodspeed, Professor of Bibilcal & Patristic Greek, University of Chicago,
Peter said unto them you must repent and everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, in order to have your sins forgiven." it NEVER means "because of.'
15. Donald L. Wise, Moody Bible Institute,
We are inclined to agree with you that the evidence of its usage and interpetation in context indicate that the proposition(Eis in Acts 2:38) is used to indicate purpose. (From MOODY of all things!!!!!!!!!!! Their scholarship outweighed their theology.)
16. Clinton W. Keys, Assistant Professor of Greek and Latin, Columbia University, New York City,
"Change your attitudes and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the removal of your sins" "Eis" takes the accusative "aphesin." I don't see that it can mean anything but "for" "for the purpose of."
17. Canon Emile Chartier, Vuce Rector, Montreal University,
"But there is one meaning it (eis) never bears, not more in Biblical Greek than in Classical, and that is the causal(because of) He paraphrases-if you are sorry of your sins and you undergo baptism, your sins will be forgiven......"
How about it folks????????????????? Thus saith the Greek professors that speak and teach the language?
In the OT men had forgiveness of sins but sins were NEVER taken away! IN the NT remission of sins took place at Calvary through his blood. He was the Lamb that took away the sin of the world. In baptism we experience this benefit of the blood that was not available in the OT. NO sin in the NT is remitted outside of baptism ONLY in baptism is the promise that faith will remit past sins of the repented. While forgiveness and remission comes from the same word it is NOT accomplished in the same act. Forgiveness ALONE will not save in the NT church. The record has to be purged or cleared and only the blood accomplishes that in the act of baptism. Our faith in his blood frees-delivers-liberates-sends away-clears our sins in baptism in Jesus Name.
Brother Elpey
Again.
Reply With Quote
  #532  
Old 04-28-2007, 09:53 AM
Actaeon Actaeon is offline
Some people could make a statue weep


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 314
REMISSION -- is not doing the mission over again.
__________________
---> Your Lack of Understanding is Your Own Fault <---
Reply With Quote
  #533  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:04 PM
Steve Epley's Avatar
Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
Luke 24:47 repentance and remission of sins was to be preached in His name BEGINNING at Jerusalem and it was.
The Name that remission of sins was preached in was the saving name Of Jesus Christ and it was experienced in water baptism by the repented.
Reply With Quote
  #534  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:05 PM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Paths View Post
Tommy Fudge's book should be listed under FICTION.
so should most PPH books ...
Reply With Quote
  #535  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:08 PM
Steve Epley's Avatar
Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
so should most PPH books ...
It was Fudge NOT Divinity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #536  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:09 PM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
You and Fudge and the three steps????????????????????

1Jn. 5:8 speaks of BLOOD-WATER-SPIRIT!!!!!!!!!
sure it does ... sad ... that you equate what happens in heaven ... to WHAT YOU DO.
Reply With Quote
  #537  
Old 04-28-2007, 11:41 PM
Neck's Avatar
Neck Neck is offline
"It's Never Too Late"


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Sacramentalist ... to say the least ....blood in Acts 2:38??? ... really.

Jesus Christ is the remedy for sin.
Is Hebrews 10:22 a baptism scripture? "Our bodies washed with pure water".

To your point Jesus "Death" on Calvary was the remedy for sin.

Yes, He forgave sins before the cross.

Once he assended and the Holy Spirit was outpoured and Baptism preached.

Baptism was the washing away of sins by pure water....

Repentance is "your" change of heart and mind not to sin.

Baptism is the application of Christ's forgiveness being applied to your act of Repentance and faith the waters of baptism now seal your past sins for eternity.

Otherwiswe what was all that splashing of water in the Book of Acts?

Why did Jesus step on the pages of his ministry getting his robe wet being baptized of John.

Just a few notes...
Reply With Quote
  #538  
Old 04-29-2007, 02:16 PM
Steve Epley's Avatar
Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neckstadt View Post
Is Hebrews 10:22 a baptism scripture? "Our bodies washed with pure water".

To your point Jesus "Death" on Calvary was the remedy for sin.

Yes, He forgave sins before the cross.

Once he assended and the Holy Spirit was outpoured and Baptism preached.

Baptism was the washing away of sins by pure water....

Repentance is "your" change of heart and mind not to sin.

Baptism is the application of Christ's forgiveness being applied to your act of Repentance and faith the waters of baptism now seal your past sins for eternity.

Otherwiswe what was all that splashing of water in the Book of Acts?

Why did Jesus step on the pages of his ministry getting his robe wet being baptized of John.

Just a few notes...
NOW you are sounding like your Dad!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #539  
Old 04-29-2007, 02:47 PM
Actaeon Actaeon is offline
Some people could make a statue weep


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Even the swine had to dip in the water to get rid of the devils ......
__________________
---> Your Lack of Understanding is Your Own Fault <---
Reply With Quote
  #540  
Old 04-29-2007, 02:49 PM
Jack Shephard's Avatar
Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
Strange in a Strange Land...


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Island
Posts: 5,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actaeon View Post
Even the swine had to dip in the water to get rid of the devils ......
That there is funny....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is Acts 2:38 your god? SDG The D.A.'s Office 438 09-16-2010 07:00 PM
Calling all PAJCers: When does Justification and Remission Happen? SDG The D.A.'s Office 353 05-30-2008 01:39 PM
book of acts revival brazil Rev. Raul Alvear Jr Missions Area 10 03-06-2007 08:11 PM
Acts 2:38 in 2007 Nahum Deep Waters 82 02-27-2007 02:17 PM
book of acts revival brazil Rev. Raul Alvear Jr Missions Area 2 02-25-2007 10:38 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Costeon

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.