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View Poll Results: How many times did you ask for the Holy Ghost
1 11 30.56%
2 1 2.78%
3 2 5.56%
4 0 0%
5-10 1 2.78%
10-20 0 0%
More than 20 21 58.33%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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  #311  
Old 06-05-2010, 12:40 AM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
How do you explain those clear examples in the book of Acts of believers who do not receive the Spirit when then believe but have to wait? Like Acts 8, the Samaritans. Or Acts 19, the disciples in Ephesus. Or the apostle Paul?

And how do you explain Paul's question in Acts 19 when he asked the disciples if they had received the Spirit when/since they believed.

"Since they believed". Believed what?
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  #312  
Old 06-05-2010, 12:45 AM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
How do you explain those clear examples in the book of Acts of believers who do not receive the Spirit when then believe but have to wait? Like Acts 8, the Samaritans. Or Acts 19, the disciples in Ephesus. Or the apostle Paul?

And how do you explain Paul's question in Acts 19 when he asked the disciples if they had received the Spirit when/since they believed.
Many of these "in-fillings by tnogues" are nothing more than episodes of tongues apperance in ones life and not the singular evidence of the HG actually filling a person. Perhaps should be a sign to th unbeliever. But it is the picture that hs been painted by leadership for years, but it is NOT the actuality, IMO.
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  #313  
Old 06-05-2010, 02:00 AM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
Many of these "in-fillings by tnogues" are nothing more than episodes of tongues apperance in ones life and not the singular evidence of the HG actually filling a person. Perhaps should be a sign to th unbeliever. But it is the picture that hs been painted by leadership for years, but it is NOT the actuality, IMO.
You really didn't answer the questions I asked. I'm trying to go by what we find in the Bible. Those infillings were "initial infillings" and you're saying that tongues "just happened". What do you base your opinion on?

Are you saying also that tongues just sort of happened in Acts 2 and that Peter was off base when he surmised that the Gentiles in Acts 10 had received the Holy Spirit because he heard them speaking with tongues?

How is someone suppose to know when (the exact moment) they have been baptized with the Holy Spirit? The early church disciples in the book of Acts knew, why can't we know?
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  #314  
Old 06-05-2010, 07:02 AM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
How do you explain those clear examples in the book of Acts of believers who do not receive the Spirit when then believe but have to wait? Like Acts 8, the Samaritans. Or Acts 19, the disciples in Ephesus. Or the apostle Paul?

And how do you explain Paul's question in Acts 19 when he asked the disciples if they had received the Spirit when/since they believed.
The Holy Ghost spoken of in Acts is definently post belief. Acts 19 is just further evidence of the Holy Ghost being post belief.
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  #315  
Old 06-05-2010, 09:23 AM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
I'll elaborate on my current understanding. Though I must warn you, I am not a Christian...
jfrog I do appreciate you explaining God's word.Although I know you say your not a Christian but you study the words of Christ.You know Paul wasn't a Christian to start with and he ended up being a Christian,perhaps you will.


Acts 19
Paul in Ephesus
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
3So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

4Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5On hearing this, they were baptized into[b] the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[c] and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.


In this passage the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit was immediate.The question some may wonder is why does the Spirit come on some with evidence and some struggle within themselves to receive the full things of God.

jfrog forgive me for asking but if your not a christian then what have you put your faith in?
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  #316  
Old 06-05-2010, 11:53 AM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Quote:
How do you explain those clear examples in the book of Acts of believers who do not receive the Spirit when then believe but have to wait? Like Acts 8, the Samaritans. Or Acts 19, the disciples in Ephesus. Or the apostle Paul?

And how do you explain Paul's question in Acts 19 when he asked the disciples if they had received the Spirit when/since they believed.
I'm trying to go by what we find in the Bible. Those infillings were "initial infillings" and you're saying that tongues "just happened". What do you base your opinion on?

Are you saying also that tongues just sort of happened in Acts 2 and that Peter was off base when he surmised that the Gentiles in Acts 10 had received the Holy Spirit because he heard them speaking with tongues?

You are arguing that Spirit baptism is subsequent to, or distinct from faith/conversion to Christ. The four scenarios you mentioned are too ambiguous to prove such claims. Let me explain:

Acts 2 is the initial outpouring of God’s prophetic promise which was made available to all believers, and included a simultaneous display of tongues. This is significant in and of itself for several reasons, and since no one had experienced this before, we must draw our conclusions from elsewhere in the scriptures.

Acts 10 does not fully support your view because hearing/believing the Gospel and the introduction of the Holy Spirit appear to occur at the same time.

Acts 19 is not really a strong case either. John’s disciples had not been fully apprised of the Gospel message, but when they did hear, the Holy Spirit moved on them. Btw, they exhibited multiple signs, and we could reasonably conclude they were synonymous with the spiritual gifts Paul mentions in the epistles. Adino has eloquently demonstrated in the scriptures that these gifts can be “stirred” and activated by “the laying of hands” of the Apostles.

Acts 8 is your best bet. However, it doesn’t explicitly mention “tongues” as being present. To push the issue in spite of such ambiguity with no additional teaching from other sources, seems to be an abuse of proper scriptural hermeneutics imo.

Last edited by noeticknight; 06-05-2010 at 11:55 AM.
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  #317  
Old 06-05-2010, 12:00 PM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
How is someone suppose to know when (the exact moment) they have been baptized with the Holy Spirit? The early church disciples in the book of Acts knew, why can't we know?

You never really answered my question regarding the centurion and Jesus. Why didn't the centurion ask Jesus, "How am I supposed to know that you healed my servant?" (post #53)

How do you know you have received forgiveness?
How do you know you have received eternal life?
How do you know that the Gospel is true, and that Jesus rose from the dead?

Do you require a sign for these things also?
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  #318  
Old 06-05-2010, 04:41 PM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by easter View Post
jfrog I do appreciate you explaining God's word.Although I know you say your not a Christian but you study the words of Christ.You know Paul wasn't a Christian to start with and he ended up being a Christian,perhaps you will.


Acts 19
Paul in Ephesus
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
3So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

4Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5On hearing this, they were baptized into[b] the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[c] and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.


In this passage the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit was immediate.The question some may wonder is why does the Spirit come on some with evidence and some struggle within themselves to receive the full things of God.

jfrog forgive me for asking but if your not a christian then what have you put your faith in?
I believe in God but I have no idea who that God is or what he is like...

As far as your analysis of Acts 19, I would like to offer one critique. They had to believe before they were baptized and they were baptized before they received the Holy Ghost. In fact, I don't think they could have immediately received the Holy Ghost because there had to have been a brief moment between the time they were baptized and the time Paul laid his hands on them. I think that brief moment between baptism and Paul laying his hands on them is enough to show that the Holy Ghost in Acts 19 was received post belief.
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  #319  
Old 06-05-2010, 05:40 PM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
The Holy Spirit is not given at faith. You have to ask for the Holy Spirit to come into your life.



It can be as simple as repenting of your sins and asking Jesus to come into your heart.
I agree wholeheartedly with this sister. Keep on preaching it!
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  #320  
Old 06-05-2010, 05:43 PM
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Re: How many times did you ask God for the Holy Gh

INITIAL EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM

Isaiah prophesied, "With stammering lips and ANOTHER TONGUE will he speak to this people." Is. 28:11. In the great commission, Jesus said, "And these signs shall follow them that believe...they shall speak with NEW TONGUES." Mark 16:17.

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the SOUND thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8. As the sound of wind blowing is the evidence of its presence, so is the sound of speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism.

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a SOUND from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:14. The initial evidence of the Holy Ghost, upon the 120 disciples, was witnessed by devout Jews, out of every nation. They said one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?" Acts 2:6-8. Then Peter preached, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel (See Joel 2:28); And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh...Having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:1&33. Cornelius and his household spoke in tongues when they were baptized with the Holy Ghost. “They of the circumcision which believe were astonished.. .because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. FOR THEY HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES..." Acts 10:4548. Peter confirmed,"...The Holy Ghost fell on them as on us at the beginning." Acts 11:15. The believers at Ephesus spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost baptism. "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake in tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:1-6. When the Samaritans received the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the apostles’ hands, there was a miraculous evidence of God’s power which exceeded the miracles and signs already experienced. This prompted Simon the sorcerer to offer money to buy this power: that on whomsoever he laid hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. According to the Biblical signs that follow believers, and the experiences received at Pentecost, Cesarea and Ephesus, there should be no doubt that the Samaritans received the Holy Ghost with the same initial evidence of speaking in tongues. Acts 8:5-25.

The apostle Paul was filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. Acts 9:17, I Cor. 14:18.

History also proves that speaking in tongues was the evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism in the early church, and has not ceased to be a Biblical experience among believers today.

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1972 Edition, Vol. 22, p. 75 -Tongue-speaking manifested itself early in the Christian experience. At Pentecost (Acts 2) the gift appeared as a sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which marked the character of the earliest Christians...During later church history, glossolalia (speaking in tongues) occurred among the mendicant friars of the 13th century, little prophets of Cevennes, the Jansenists, and the Irvingites. Tongues were found also among the early Quakers, as well as among the converts of John Wesley and George Whitefield... In modern times glossolalia has been found chiefly among Holiness and Pentecostal groups. The Saturday Evening Post, May 16, 1964, p.32 - Praying in tongues has recurred at intervals throughout the Christian era, although it did not affect large masses until early in this century.

Its advocates were quickly expelled from the established churches, whereupon they established the Pentecostal churches. For 50 years it remained the almost exclusive possession of the Pentecostal churches.

Newsweek, June 25, 1973, p.80 - The Pentecostal phenomenon has spread with surprising speed through all of the world’s major Christian churches. Why did God choose tongues for the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism? Note the following reasons:

1. Isaiah asked, "Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being His counselor hath taught Him?" Is. 40:13. God is sovereign to choose as He will without being accountable to anyone!

2. Such a marvelous experience as the baptism of the Holy Ghost demands a marvelous evidence. So God chase to speak through the believer in a language foreign to him as the outward evidence of the marvelous infilling of the Holy Ghost!

3. The tongue is the most unruly member of the body and full of deadly poison, which no man can tame. It is a world of iniquity and is set on fire of hell. Therefore, the tongue is capable of defiling the entire body. James 3:6. Before man can be fully sanctified, the tongue, which defileth, must be brought under control. Who can tame the tongue? James compares the tongue to the bit in a horse’s mouth which gives the driver complete control. James 3:3. So whoever controls the tongue controls the person. How beautiful is this glorious truth! God chose tongues, as evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism, to symbolize His complete control of a believer. And this is important for the sanctification of the individual’s body.

4. Although other signs were manifested at Pentecost, God chose tongues for the uniform sign of the Holy Spirit baptism. (Compare Acts 2:2-4, 10:46, 19:6.) Jesus said that this SIGN shall follow every believer of the gospel. Mark 16:16,17. The Jews were convinced that the Gentiles at Cesarea had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, FOR THEY HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES. Acts 10:45-47.
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