Statement by Bro. Steve Pixler

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I consider you to be one of the "smart fellers" on this forum. You've got me whooped ('cept when I'm right and you're wrong!). Seriously, you were REALLY good in the "Cross" thread.

I do not consider myself to be a theologian, even an amateur one, nor a debater. There aren't many who could match me on bible knowledge for everyday living and practical Christian living. I totally have a pastor's heart. But when it comes to deep knowledge or debating knowledge or dissecting Turtullian, I'm a 3 on a 10 scale.

Well, thank you. I have a long ways to go to knowing anything though.

I had similar negative feelings about people on this forum for awhile too. Of course I've changed my mind and am surprised at the level of intelligence of many of the posters. Even those who rarely provide answers -- asking questions is a sign of intelligence for sure.

You don't do to bad yourself!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Standards

I know how you work. I post scriptures and you tear them apart. You don't want scriptures, you want to argue. So...what's the point?

Tear apart scriptures? I'm sure you see it that way. What's actually happening is, I'm tearing down your locked-in-a-box-manmade tradition of scriptures. And when did you and I really get much into scriptures, anyway? It's all been chest-beating so far.

[Standards]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'd like to think that just posting scriptures does not an argument make. The whole chore of wading through the waters of theology is application, which goes WAY beyond just throwing up scriptures.

The Bible's not important. We must examine the Greek, Hebrew, context, Jewish history, on and on. I agree that we can't just post random scriptures, but I think you guys take it too far. Jesus doesn't expect every saint to have a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. We have plenty of good translations out there. I am amazed by how many people seem to think that they know more than translators.

[Standards]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Tear apart scriptures? I'm sure you see it that way. What's actually happening is, I'm tearing down your locked-in-a-box-manmade tradition of scriptures. And when did you and I really get much into scriptures, anyway? It's all been chest-beating so far.

Here's your typical argument:

"It's no in the Bible"

"That isn't what that verse means"

"That has nothing to do with our discussion"

It's easy to sound smart when you make comments like this, but you really can't stick to the issues. You just want to make the person mad and get them off track.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Standards

The Bible's not important. We must examine the Greek, Hebrew, context, Jewish history, on and on. I agree that we can't just post random scriptures, but I think you guys take it too far. Jesus doesn't expect every saint to have a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. We have plenty of good translations out there. I am amazed by how many people seem to think that they know more than translators.

I am too!

Translators have a task at preserving a document as best they can for us to read. From there, as a reader, we are making a gazillion interpretive judgements when reading the "plain and simple" text. Everyone makes judgements. I agree that to gain from Scripture you don't have to always dig deeper. But to fully understand what the scripture means to the original audience, and to hear the words of Jesus as the people who first heard them, it takes some work. I'm guilty so often of reading into to the text, and I admit I do that a lot! So this is why it's important to understand what it meant to the original audience first. That doesn't take being a Greek/Hebrew scholar. Know how to use tools, have some idea of hermeneutics, be open-minded and as objective as is possible approaching the Text, pray and let something mystical happen!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Well, thank you. I have a long ways to go to knowing anything though.

I had similar negative feelings about people on this forum for awhile too. Of course I've changed my mind and am surprised at the level of intelligence of many of the posters. Even those who rarely provide answers -- asking questions is a sign of intelligence for sure.

You don't do to bad yourself!

There are those on the forum who, I feel, filibuster the argument with showing their expansive knowledge of irrelevant material. I won't do the names. That irritates me. There is one individual who dumps out pages of information, makes people go, "Wow", and yet does nothing to support his position.

But I've learned more from, for example, Pelathais than I learned in 3 years of bible school. He's the reason I stayed on the forum after my initial arrival to refute an erroneous account of an event of which I was strongly a part. I stayed around just to read what he wrote. I got hooked and now I post way too much.

I agree with you...my view of this forum is far different than my initial perception. There are still the "Preacher killers" that I detest with all my heart. But all-around, AFF is a great education and it's also given me an opportunity to re-connect a bit with my roots and better equip me to defend my position.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Standards

The Bible's not important. We must examine the Greek, Hebrew, context, Jewish history, on and on. I agree that we can't just post random scriptures, but I think you guys take it too far. Jesus doesn't expect every saint to have a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. We have plenty of good translations out there. I am amazed by how many people seem to think that they know more than translators.

I am not one of the "Well, let's look at the Greek Lexicon" type of dudes. I flunked Greek. If I can't figure out the bible given to me what good does it do to learn Greek? One of my favorite cartoons is this fellow who is saying, "In the KJV it says Yes, but in the Greek it says No!!" Silly. So I'm with you there, and I often say that you don't need to interpret the bible as much as you just need to obey it.

The HUGE mistake I see cons make is context. I believe they post a verse alone, ignore the context, and develop a core value system based on an isolated verse without considering the context. There can be no greater example of this than Deut. 22:5.

[Standards]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I am too!

Translators have a task at preserving a document as best they can for us to read. From there, as a reader, we are making a gazillion interpretive judgements when reading the "plain and simple" text. Everyone makes judgements. I agree that to gain from Scripture you don't have to always dig deeper. But to fully understand what the scripture means to the original audience, and to hear the words of Jesus as the people who first heard them, it takes some work. I'm guilty so often of reading into to the text, and I admit I do that a lot! So this is why it's important to understand what it meant to the original audience first. That doesn't take being a Greek/Hebrew scholar. Know how to use tools, have some idea of hermeneutics, be open-minded and as objective as is possible approaching the Text, pray and let something mystical happen!

Look, I understand that we must study the Word. Duh...I get that. I just think we get in trouble when we take obvious passages, like 1 Cor. 11, and just because we don't like the message, we examine the context, history, Greek, exc. Studying is one thing, but just trying to disprove something just because you don't like it, is really something else.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Standards

Here's your typical argument:

"It's no in the Bible"

"That isn't what that verse means"

"That has nothing to do with our discussion"

It's easy to sound smart when you make comments like this, but you really can't stick to the issues. You just want to make the person mad and get them off track.

I said in the AG video thread that I don't like their cliche, "Accept Jesus as your personal Savior" because it's not in the bible. You don't agree with the validity of that argument?

Second, people frequently say in the prosperity doctrine world, "If any two or three agree as touching.....". You know the rest. They use it as getting anything they want just because 2 people agree. But that's not what that verse means. Don't you agree with that? People will quote Phil. 4:13, "I can do all things through Chris...." just before performing in the long jump in the Olympics. But that's not what that verse means. Agree? I think what a verse means is important.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Standards

Look, I understand that we must study the Word. Duh...I get that. I just think we get in trouble when we take obvious passages, like 1 Cor. 11, and just because we don't like the message, we examine the context, history, Greek, exc. Studying is one thing, but just trying to disprove something just because you don't like it, is really something else.

That's the thing -- there couldn't be a more confusing scripture in the entire Bible. Every scholar would say that! Nothing slam dunk about it. And FTR, the uncut hair crowd has added more to what is written than anyone.

If you are looking for reasons to disprove things, that's no longer exegesis. That's eisgesis, just as much as those who look for reasons to support their own doctrines. The text means what it means, independent of our pre-conceived ideas or notions.