Good evening visiting Pharisees, wolves and

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

No doubt, many who are in the OP movement don't know exactly what the love of God is. (again, not necessarily posted @ REV, but he brings up a good point/questions that I believe many pentecostals are ignorant to)

The love of God is a love that burns towards us no matter who we are, what we have done, or where we have gone. It is a love that cannot be quenched. It is a love that suffered all things, willingly, for our sakes. It is the love that caused God himself to [figuratively] get off of the throne in heaven, and come down and subject himself to sinful men who would hate him, abuse him, beat him, spit on him, and murder him, and yet his response wasn't vegenace, but a broken heart.

The love of God is a love that reaches for all people, everywhere. It is not love for sin, but love in spite of sin. It is not love based on our performance, out outward appearence, or our ability to keep the rules. It is a love that is constant and faithful, even if we are not. It is a never changing, ever burning love, not predicated one iota upon our actions. That is the love of God, and that is what pentecostals need a revelation of!


**note, I am not saying that someone is saved because God loves them, but I am specifically saying that God doesn't start hating you because you trimmed your hair, went to a ball game, or wore a tie tack, or watched a movie at the theater. Gods love and also our salvation do not come and go based on such trivial things.

What you are saying would in deed be nice if it were true.

But of course it's not!

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:28) He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(Heb 10:29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(Heb 10:31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[SteppingStone]

To know to do good and do it not, to him it is sin.

Another words if God convicts YOU about something and you ignore it, it becomes sin to you individually..

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Rev

You must have been around for a long time.

Where did you hear that?

I have been in Pentecost for over 30 years and have never heard that.

Many Pentecostal preachers teach their young minister that they should wear long sleeves.

They believe that if saints are to live holy the ministry should do more, thus the long sleeves.


And Jesus is the only saving name in the bible....

(Acts 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is a commandment not a request.

Also been in the Apostolic church for over 32 years.

We talk about the "Slippery Slope", but not with Religion. Sleeve length, jewelry, hair length, facial hair, celebrating Holidays, color of clothing, ect., ect., ect., these lead people onto the Slippery Slope that dives right into bondage.

Why do we ignore the rebuke of Jesus to the Scribes and Pharisees? Our movement does the EXACT same thing by focusing and demanding outward holiness. We call it sin, and the slide continues. We chase our tail, looking for the next "Sin". Before long, we are judging with FALSE judgment and are as blind as the hypocrites that Jesus stood toe to toe with. We’re right, and everybody else is wrong.

One example that comes to mind; obesity. We gorge down the food, and then call smokers EVIL!

Another thing; we tell people to love the brethren, but as soon as our brothers or sisters fall, we pounce on them with ridicule and gossip. We dis-fellowship people all because they might be going through a hard time in their life or have found a different way to serve God.

How about Anti-Depressants and Narcotic use? We condemn the drug addict while we slip into the doctor’s office for our next legal fix!

The whole sin issue is an issue of the heart. People aren’t as dumb as we might think. When we develop a sound relationship with God, you won’t need a line of Preachers to tell you, “You know, that porn you’re looking at is EVIL!”

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

The whole sin issue is an issue of the heart. People aren’t as dumb as we might think. When we develop a sound relationship with God, you won’t need a line of Preachers to tell you, “You know, that porn you’re looking at is EVIL!”

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Yeah, some need a definition of sin.

I am not going to go through this entire thread, so, if someone else has already posted a response to the question, “What is sin?”, I apologize. However, here are a few thoughts for consideration:

Biblically defined sin is found in 1 John 3:4 (KJV), Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Companion verses of doctrine would include passages such as:

Romans 3:31 (KJV), Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Do away with the Law, then what is left? Grace? Romans 5:13 + (KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law….

Without the Law, sin is undefined and neither is it imputed to man. Therefore, if there is no longer any law in affect, then after the resurrection of Jesus, there is no further need for Him. Does anyone actually believe that? I pray not!

There are a good many other verses (actually 'passages') that apply, and these few verses should be used only as study starters. However, therein lies the heart of the law and the defining of sin.

The problem is that so many preachers/teachers really do not actually know what sin is. That is because they have not studied the law (Torah, God’s instructions in righteousness) that Jesus and all of His apostles/disciples taught. They read a few letters that Paul wrote and think that they have it all. Want to ‘know’ what the other disciples taught? If they were true to their calling, and it seems from their reported deaths they were faithful, they taught what they were commanded to teach by Jesus Himself. See Matthew 28:19-20, another study starter passage (emphases is on verse 20).

So, what we find so frequently are teachers/preachers who expound on sin without either knowing what sin is (they can recite some examples) but they don't understand the spiritual/scriptural context or precepts within which these examples are to be understood and applied to the life of a disciple of Christ. The applicable verse here is: 1 Timothy 1:7 (KJV), Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

The expected results of this kind of surface teaching is exactly what we find in many churches of today: Oral laws generated by men to meet what they think are the sound spiritual needs within the fellowship of believers. That is, they take upon themselves the authority to tell the children of God what they think God considers to be a sin, according to their own understanding. Or, we are looking at religious sounding ideas that are generated in order to achieve some personal agenda.

To discover what Jesus thought of religious leaders who engage in such activities read Matthew 23. Yet, we know that to add to, remove from, or to otherwise alter/modify the word of God is another transgression of the 'Law' that many teachers will acknowledge should not take place, but are not deterred from practicing it themselves! See Deuteronomy 12:32 (KJV), What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

What we are left with are ‘leaders’ making up rules and defining sin as a list of particular actions (activities) or the failure to conform to some man-made standard of ‘holiness’, thinking that they are doing something that is pleasing to God. It seems that many continue to confuse a saint’s holiness with what he/she does, rather than who they are in Christ. A word study on the term 'holiness' in both the original Greek and Hebrew is in order here, not definitions found in an organizational manual.

Colossians 2:20 – 3:3 (KJV), Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh….

So while decrying the existence of the Law of God and the grace that makes observance of that Law possible, they are busy making up new laws, ordinances and statutes so as to appear spiritual, holy, and acceptable unto the Lord. This is done even as they chop up God’s law into bits and pieces that are personally acceptable, and calling that ‘good’.

Our God is a covenant God. We are now in covenant number seven of eight projected covenants. It is therefore necessary to study, know, and understand what is required from man in this seventh covenant that God has made with mankind. We all line up for the blessings, rights, and privileges of the covenant, but where is the understanding of what is required from us in order to fulfill our side of the covenant obligations? Covenants are two way conditional agreements. Most professing Christians have no clue as to what our covenant obligations are.

Anyway, Cindy, there are a few thoughts on what sin is, how it should be defined and how it fits into the New Covenant time frame. I hope this helps - and may your studies be fruitful.

------------------
An added note: For a more complete understanding of how God envisioned the Law to be understood and implemented, see Matthew chapters 5, 6, & 7.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

I am not going to go through this entire thread, so, if someone else has already posted a response to the question, “What is sin?”, I apologize. However, here are a few thoughts for consideration:

Biblically defined sin is found in 1 John 3:4 (KJV), Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Companion verses of doctrine would include passages such as:

Romans 3:31 (KJV), Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Do away with the Law, then what is left? Grace? Romans 5:13 + (KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law….

Without the Law, sin is undefined and neither is it imputed to man. Therefore, if there is no longer any law in affect, then after the resection of Jesus, there is no further need for Him. Does anyone actually believe that? I pray not!

There are a good many other verses (actually 'passages') that apply, and these few verses should be used only as study starters. However, therein lies the heart of the law and the defining of sin.

The problem is that so many preachers/teachers really do not actually know what sin is. That is because they have not studied the law (Torah, God’s instructions in righteousness) that Jesus and all of His apostles/disciples taught. They read a few letters that Paul wrote and think that they have it all. Want to ‘know’ what the other disciples taught? If they were true to their calling, and it seems from their reported deaths they were faithful, they taught what they were commanded to teach by Jesus Himself. See Matthew 28:19-20, another study starter passage (emphases is on verse 20).

So, what we find so frequently are teachers/preachers who expound on sin without either knowing what sin is (they can recite some examples) but they don't understand the spiritual/scriptural context or precepts within which these examples are to be understood and applied to the life of a disciple of Christ. The applicable verse here is: 1 Timothy 1:7 (KJV), Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

The expected results of this kind of surface teaching is exactly what we find in many churches of today: Oral laws generated by men to meet what they think are the sound spiritual needs within the fellowship of believers. That is, they take upon themselves the authority to tell the children of God what they think God considers to be a sin, according to their own understanding. Or, we are looking at religious sounding ideas that are generated in order to achieve some personal agenda.

To discover what Jesus thought of religious leaders who engage in such activities read Matthew 23. Yet, we know that to add to, remove from, or to otherwise alter/modify the word of God is another transgression of the 'Law' that many teachers will acknowledge should not take place, but are not deterred from practicing it themselves! See Deuteronomy 12:32 (KJV), What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

What we are left with are ‘leaders’ making up rules and defining sin as a list of particular actions (activities) or the failure to conform to some man-made standard of ‘holiness’, thinking that they are doing something that is pleasing to God. It seems that many continue to confuse a saint’s holiness with what he/she does, rather than who they are in Christ. A word study on the term 'holiness' in both the original Greek and Hebrew is in order here, not definitions fond in an organizational manual.

Colossians 2:20 – 3:3 (KJV), Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh….

So while decrying the existence of the Law of God and the grace that makes observance of that Law possible, they are busy making up new laws, ordinances and statutes so as to appear spiritual, holy, and acceptable unto the Lord. This is done even as they chop up God’s law into bits and pieces that are personally acceptable, and calling that ‘good’.

Our God is a covenant God. We are now in covenant number seven of eight projected covenants. It is therefore necessary to study, know, and understand what is required from man in this seventh covenant that God has made with mankind. We all line up for the blessings, rights, and privileges of the covenant, but where is the understanding of what is required from us in order to fulfill our side of the covenant obligations? Covenants are two way conditional agreements. Most professing Christians have no clue as to what our covenant obligations are.

Anyway, Cindy, there are a few thoughts on what sin is, how it should be defined and how it fits into the New Covenant time frame. I hope this helps - and may your studies be fruitful.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this post. Very helpful!

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this post. Very helpful!

Thanks Mirth. Of course, as usual, I had to go back and make a few 'adjustments' to my original post. in order to make it more understandable.

Also, a great area of the Bible to study is a word by word, line by line study of Matthew chapters 5, 6, & 7. What does each word mean, how are they to be understood and interpreted and applied in one's life?

That task is not a trivial one, because it will challenge a number of doctrines and theological precepts that have gained a hold over the centuries. Even so, do not fear to challenge every religious concept you hold. Question everything. Be a lady of Berea. That is, take nothing you read or hear at face value, but rather, study it for yourself and be assured by the word and the Spirit of the truth of any doctrine.

In your studies, remember, the first precept of any study is to identify the specific content of a passage - in its correct (proper) context, and not to make any more or less of a word or thought than what is called for to understand that particular passage. Plus, just because the same English word appears in several verses, that does not mean that those verses can be tied together! You must study the word as it was used in the original language - Lexicons are a great assistance in this effort. If you do not have them, you can go to http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...?Strongs=H0001 and type in either a Greek (G) or Hebrew (H) Strong's (KJV indexed) number and read the usage information for the word selected.

Grace and blessings be unto you.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jfrog

"Preaching against sin?" Who doesn't do that?

Some focus so much on sin that they are frustrated that their church is drowning in it. Maybe try focusing on the Gospel, and maybe a good Gospel Baptism will happen instead.

Gospel is not to make bad people good, but to make dead people live!

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

Thanks Mirth. Of course, as usual, I had to go back and make a few 'adjustments' to my original post. in order to make it more understandable.

Also, a great area of the Bible to study is a word by word, line by line study of Matthew chapters 5, 6, & 7. What does each word mean, how are they to be understood and interpreted and applied in one's life?

That task is not a trivial one, because it will challenge a number of doctrines and theological precepts that have gained a hold over the centuries. Even so, do not fear to challenge every religious concept you hold. Question everything. Be a lady of Berea. That is, take nothing you read or hear at face value, but rather, study it for yourself and be assured by the word and the Spirit of the truth of any doctrine.

In your studies, remember, the first precept of any study is to identify the specific content of a passage - in its correct (proper) context, and not to make any more or less of a word or thought than what is called for to understand that particular passage. Plus, just because the same English word appears in several verses, that does not mean that those verses can be tied together! You must study the word as it was used in the original language - Lexicons are a great assistance in this effort. If you do not have them, you can go to http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...?Strongs=H0001 and type in either a Greek (G) or Hebrew (H) Strong's (KJV indexed) number and read the usage information for the word selected.

Grace and blessings be unto you.

Thank you for the advice. I believe that truth will prevail even under intense scrutiny. I don't think it's wrong to ask "why?", and I'm enjoying a deeper understanding of God's word in the process.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

1.) Golf
2.) Short Pants
3.) Short Sleeves
4.) Coffee
5.) Radio
6.) Earbobs
7.) And the granddaddy of all - HELLAVISION!