Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?

[pastorrick1959]

Originally Posted by Lacey

Sure they can, if they want to. Again, why is it your assumption that we are unhappy with how we look? Holiness women are the most beautiful women in all the world bar none!

my wife has always been beautiful...we are not upc but ,she could pass the test lol.. i love the look of long hair ,a;ways been my preference for women even when i was single .

most of the women in my church ,dont do what they dont do ,because they say god convicted them of it .. how can you fight that ..i not real tight standard person. but not loose either ....

i motivate to strive to be holy ,without much detail throwed in ,i figure god will sort you out like he wants you. there is 30,60 100 fold,,so theres must be room for more than a few.

now for leadership thats a whole different matter if ur gonna preach for me you better look the part and live the part. be ensamples to the flock.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by deadeye

Idiots!!

Hmmmm......

See, this is what we need in order to fully comprehend the debate. In any discussion, we need to hear both sides of the issue clearly articulated, and you have represented the conservative side of the debate very well.

I was fully convinced that I was right when I started this thread but now that you answer with such depth, passion, fervency, and as well, back it up with exegetical, homiletical, eschatological, expositorical, and every other big bible study word I can think of, sound thought, I now have to reconsider my position and just say, "Wow, I never looked at it that way."

Thank you so much, Deadeye, for contributing to the debate such pertinent and relevant information.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

[=Lacey;Sure they can, if they want to. Again, why is it your assumption that we are unhappy with how we look? Holiness women are the most beautiful women in all the world bar none! ]


my wife has always been beautiful...we are not upc but ,she could pass the test lol.. i love the look of long hair ,a;ways been my preference for women even when i was single .

most of the women in my church ,dont do what they dont do ,because they say god convicted them of it .. how can you fight that ..i not real tight standard person. but not loose either ....

i motivate to strive to be holy ,without much detail throwed in ,i figure god will sort you out like he wants you. there is 30,60 100 fold,,so theres must be room for more than a few.

now for leadership thats a whole different matter if ur gonna preach for me you better look the part and live the part. be ensamples to the flock.

You, and several others, have expressed that "Your kind of woman" is one with long hair. So...the only reasonable thing to do, so that you fellers can get your kicks when you look at women, is to really get out there and preach the long-hair standard. We wouldn't want you to not get your jollies.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

my wife has always been beautiful...we are not upc but ,she could pass the test lol.. i love the look of long hair ,a;ways been my preference for women even when i was single .

most of the women in my church ,dont do what they dont do ,because they say god convicted them of it .. how can you fight that ..i not real tight standard person. but not loose either ....

I often wonder... is it really a conviction from God, or is it fear and condemnation from hearing it preached so hard for so many years by pastors and evangelists that if you trim your hair or wear pants you're going to split hell wide open?

now for leadership thats a whole different matter if ur gonna preach for me you better look the part and live the part. be ensamples to the flock.

Please elaborate. "Live the part" I understand. But what does "look the part" mean - using Bible terms and not dogma or tradition, please? Thanks.

My biggest question is this:
What is it about simply dressing old fashioned that makes us think someone looks holy? We live in modern homes, drive modern automobiles, take advantage of the latest modern technologies, work in modern careers and jobs, but as long as the ladies LOOK like the ladies did in the 40's, they're holy. Where is the consistency in that? And what makes the man holy?

Want to know what "TRUE HOLINESS" is (a Biblical term)? It starts in Ephesians 4.24 and continues into chapter 5. How often do you hear these holiness standards preached?

Ephesians 4
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God

-- and on and on and on it goes...

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by deadeye

Idiots!!

Originally Posted by notofworks

Hmmmm......

See, this is what we need in order to fully comprehend the debate. In any discussion, we need to hear both sides of the issue clearly articulated, and you have represented the conservative side of the debate very well.

I was fully convinced that I was right when I started this thread but now that you answer with such depth, passion, fervency, and as well, back it up with exegetical, homiletical, eschatological, expositorical, and every other big bible study word I can think of, sound thought, I now have to reconsider my position and just say, "Wow, I never looked at it that way."

Thank you so much, Deadeye, for contributing to the debate such pertinent and relevant information.

Obviously this person is following peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. The love of Christ is just radiating from this holy one!

[pelathais]

I don't know that one "measuring stick" of a "cult" necessarily is "suppression of women," but that's a minor point.

I think you are correct about "the look" however. All of these guys that demand for our "standards" and "distinctives" to "separate us" for "the world's look" go about in fashionable worldly attire themselves. It's just their wives and daughters who are expected to heel when it comes to fashion.

Unless of course, if it's a conference or other big meeting; then the ladies are expected to pull out all the stops with the complexities of their hairdos and expensive dresses. Either way - casual or formal, the burden is always on the girls.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Lacey

Notofworks, I don't hear any of my holiness friends complaining of being suppressed because of the way they don't cut their hair, or don't wear pants, or makeup, or jewelry. Why do you have this assumption?

because restrictions always must be viewed this way

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by notofworks

You, and several others, have expressed that "Your kind of woman" is one with long hair. So...the only reasonable thing to do, so that you fellers can get your kicks when you look at women, is to really get out there and preach the long-hair standard. We wouldn't want you to not get your jollies.

Is that "ravaged by grace" part of you??

[Standards]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Here's the deal...

Last week I saw a husband and wife. They are a strong part of an OP organization. He was looking like a million bucks. Very fashionable. He's very good looking and could have stepped straight onto the cover of GQ magazine and they wouldn't have had to change him one bit.

His wife? Well, that's another story. While being attractive herself, she VERY MUCH SO had "The Look." For her, there are NO options.

I'm just wondering....why do almost all the rules apply to the women? Cut hair, earrings, jewelry, makeup, pants, on and on and on. The guys? They get off just about unscathed.

You tell me.....when you see a UPC (or similar) couple in public, how can you tell they're UPC? By looking at the guy? No way. You KNOW it's from the look the women has. A UPC guy could walk around NYC for years and never be identified. A women? She's spotted in seconds. And I think that's chauvinistic.

I've never played the "cult card" on the UPC...don't think that's fair. But let's face it, one of the measuring sticks frequently used for a cult, is the "suppression of women."

So what do you think?



NOTE: This is an old thread but it was placed in some remote area and I wanted to bump it

I just lock my wife in a cage when we're at home. She can only come out when she agrees to wear cons. clothing.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

because restrictions always must be viewed this way

We are ALL called to a higher standard, which is required by grace, to submit ourselves to the leadership of the Spirit of God.

Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

The "bondage" being referred to is the legalism/phariseeism that the judaizers were trying to require of the Galatian church. Man-required standards/restrictions are an unnecessary yoke.

What life that is truly surrendered to Christ would not automatically out of conviction present themselves modestly? What person who is truly filled with the Spirit, and walking in the Spirit, connected to the vine, not automatically produce fruit that is becoming of one professing godliness? It's a fear-factor control issue that seeks uniformity and homogeneity in every aspect of our lives that causes us (many) to make absolutes out of principles. If we truly understood what walking in the Spirit meant, and spent more time perfecting the saints in this manner, we'd see a lot less condemnation and unnecessary rebellion.