Quote:
REPROBATE that which is rejected on account of its own worthlessness (Jeremiah 6:30; Hebrews 6:8; Gr. adokimos, "rejected"). This word is also used with reference to persons cast away or rejected because they have failed to make use of opportunities offered them (1 Cor. 9:27; 2 Cor. 13:5-7).
Just what is a reprobate...
What we think or feel is of very little consequence...it is what saith the word of God...that is truth.
I agree it develops during childhood but based on a genetics (i.e. puberty takes place during adolesence but is genetically predetermined). We may vary a bit on our specifics but the truth is that orientation is not a choice. I think THAT is where we are in agreement (even if your view is that only heterosexual orientation is not a choice). Either way, we have some commonality.
But you have no proof that it's genetic, other than your saying so.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I agree it develops during childhood but based on a genetics (i.e. puberty takes place during adolesence but is genetically predetermined). We may vary a bit on our specifics but the truth is that orientation is not a choice. I think THAT is where we are in agreement (even if your view is that only heterosexual orientation is not a choice). Either way, we have some commonality.
Puberty onset isn't a genetic predetermination either. It's hormonal, not genetic. Major difference.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
As I've stated before (by the way, these are grossly hysterical examples you are making), murdering God's creation is not a God-given, natural desire. Human companionship is. I have agreed all along that homosexuality deviates from the first human relationship (Adam & Eve) but believe that it deviates as the result of a naturally occuring genetic mutation (such as hermaphroditism, intersexism, or any other genetically altered deviation). This belief is based on the fact that orientation is most definitely genetically determined due to the amazingly high correlation that exists between chromosomal sex and orientatin (i.e., most males are attracted to females and visa versa).
Because I know from first hand experience that I COMPLETELY lack an attraction to females and, instead, have an attraction to males, I know that my genetically determined orientation has deviated from the norm but is real, true, and natural nonetheless. This disqualifies me from being an individual who has been turned over to homosexuality because of idolatry.
Again, you have a big problem. You are making claims as fact when there is no proof. I cannot have honest discussion based on that.
Attraction to people isn't genetic. It's a development over time that has occured, just like other things you enjoy.
For instance, I like to fish. I didn't make that choice one day, but it stems from experiences and other things that happened when I was younger.
I like to watch Nascar and football. I didn't make that decision one day, but it's something that attracts me to those activities.
I HATE baseball and basketball. I couldn't watch those games if I tried. Oh, and I've tried. I lived in the Chicago area when the Bulls won their first three-season winning streak. I just couldn't get into it. No appeal to me whatsoever.
However, NONE of the above is based on genetics. It's just how I am. I don't know why I prefer football to baseball, but that's how it is.
This is how you are with your attractions also, but you can't base it on genetics when the research says otherwise.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
First of all, it's not an excuse. Second, I am justified in arguing genetics because it is a rebuttal to other arguments that hetersexuality is the genetic norm.
Let me also make a bold statement that may cause most in this room to roll their eyes in complete in total disbelief.
I have given the majority of my life to prayer over this issue and have not come to these conclusions lightly or of my own ability. I have laid in bed, countless nights, sobbing and begging God to help me understand all of this.
I know in my heart that I love God yet I could never accept His love because I could not reconcile that fact that I was one of the idolaters of Romans 1. It was after asking God to show me His will and to truly help me understand why I was gay that I began to see things from the perspective I am sharing with you in this forum. No man will ever be able to take away the divine understanding that I have received from God. I am only here to share it and to do so with as much clarity and conviction as I can and in hopes of helping someone who may be dealing with the same confusion, lonliness, bitterness that I once faced on a daily basis.
Regardless, homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple. Just like lying, stealing, and murder are sins. Yet, we were all born with the propensity to lie, steal, and even murder. It's not in our genetics, but our sinful nature.
It's the same with you. I mentioned that before but you blew it off. You refuse to see what the Bible plainly says, and yes, when you use genetics as a reason, and one that was unfounded a long time ago, it's an excuse.
Why is it an excuse? Because it makes you feel justified if it was truly genetic. You have no justification if people tell you it's just the sinful nature we are all born with. I'm not saying that to be nasty, but I call it as I see it.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
IF homosexuality was set in stone at birth; there would not be a single set of identical twins that weren't of the same sexual orientation. But this isn't so.
This is why no one has to fear finding a homosexual gene (that has been as elusive as Santa Clause and the tooth fairy). The church isn't about to run into a freight train contrary to some people's point of view.
All I've ever said (to my recollection) is that you cannot say homosexuality is unnatural while saying that heterosexuality IS natural. In order to prove homosexuality is unnatural one must begin by attempting to prove that heterosexuality is natural. Of course, by proving heterosexuality is natural you have to admit that orientation is natural because heterosexuality is directed toward BOTH males and females and is only sex-specific based on the GENETIC construction of the individual with the orientation. Therefore, a genetic orientation toward someone of the same sex is no more unnatural than being born with any other genetic variation from the norm.
Again, you are speaking an assumption, not a fact.
You are the one arguing genetics. Not anyone else. You have yet to find proof for that, especially since that was thrown out a long time ago by those who were seeking for that proof. It doesn't exist.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Again, you are speaking an assumption, not a fact.
You are the one arguing genetics. Not anyone else. You have yet to find proof for that, especially since that was thrown out a long time ago by those who were seeking for that proof. It doesn't exist.
This is why it's so important to separate the underlying unnatural/abnormal attraction (which is not chosen) from the sin (the choice of embracing and acting on the attraction) and deal with each separately. Yes, the underlying attraction is contrary to God's created design for male and female but, no, it isn't chosen. Regardless, it's still sin to embrace and act on the attraction.
Again, you have a big problem. You are making claims as fact when there is no proof. I cannot have honest discussion based on that.
Attraction to people isn't genetic. It's a development over time that has occured, just like other things you enjoy.
For instance, I like to fish. I didn't make that choice one day, but it stems from experiences and other things that happened when I was younger.
I like to watch Nascar and football. I didn't make that decision one day, but it's something that attracts me to those activities.
I HATE baseball and basketball. I couldn't watch those games if I tried. Oh, and I've tried. I lived in the Chicago area when the Bulls won their first three-season winning streak. I just couldn't get into it. No appeal to me whatsoever.
However, NONE of the above is based on genetics. It's just how I am. I don't know why I prefer football to baseball, but that's how it is.
This is how you are with your attractions also, but you can't base it on genetics when the research says otherwise.
I can not stay with your line of thought and I think it is far more supportive of a "design apart from one's self" viewpoint, even though your position is that these life preferences do not pertain to genetics.
We make choices all along our lives concerning what we will consider, study, inquire about , explore, experiment in, advance or reject.
Take your basketball example; I lived the first 37 years of life with almost a complete repulsion to watching NBA players run up and down a court and shoot into a metal ring. Then a friend of mine, who was well-versed in the coaches, strategies, back-stories, and player skills shared much of this with me and I was OPENED up to a place where I could enjoy watching the sport be played. I would tend to believe that there was some worthwhile or valid experiences, or maybe a good surrounding or a needed escape, that led you to appreciate fishing.
If we look to the childhood experience (often preceeding readily available memories), and consider that some development got derailed because of trauma, neglect, rejection, embrassement, etc we find a need to acknowledge a series of subsequent actions (choices) that have subsequently been solidified and reaffirmed by a lifestyle.
Events that were very real, leaving in their wake, distortions of one's personal self. If the giftings within God's body ministry are not functioning in this area, then there is no remedy apart from a person's private experience with calling upon the name of Jesus for a transformation by being able to receive a new 'mindedness'.
We have countless examples of this being vainly attempted with many other manifestations of sin's bondage (resentment, bitterness, lascivousness) . If a sincere attempt to get free is not found in their private world, what remedy will they find if they come to you, me, or any other member of the body of Christ?
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
Linear Mode
