Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

What you guys do not see is that you're importing your own ideas into the text of God's Word that NEVER states the same. Then you wanna' tell ME that I'm off base???? Save it for the more simple, I see thru your ruse. I don't follow people who make up their own Bible, as Thomas Jefferson did.

Now, let me help you fella's out here a bit. According to your angle w/ I Ptr. 3 & I Tim. 2, Paul & Peter meant to actually wear jewelry, but don't let your beauty be derived from it. Problem is, this is not in the text, nor the context. It's supplied exclusively by the liberal crowd...not the Bible.

Liberal crowd???? The orgs that espouse this and people that do come from every theological stripe... unless anyone that doesn't prohibit jewlery is your small square called conservative. What a silly thing to say!

And yes, of course it's "in the text", that's where were getting this from

But, let's test your theory. Using the ol' idiomatic rule that you force into I Ptr. 3 & I Tim. 2, let's apply the same rule to Eph. 5:18, Before you make a smart alec, lazy interjection, you can't necessarily apply a blanket rule on all passages... they are all unique, and should be exegeted as they are.... now I'll continue

which has the same basic greek syntax: "And be N-O-T drunk 'ONLY' with wine, wherein in excess, but be filled with the Spirit 'ALSO'." Thus, instead of there being a "total prohibition" on being drunk, we're now actually encouraged to be so, so long as we're also filled w/ the Spirit!?!? Hmmm, very strange method of interpretation that you fella's have. The problem is, drunkenness is articulated specifically throughout scripture as sin. There's no codifying, mystery solving, type and shadow abusing needed. It's quite explicit throughout. The reason? Drunkenness leads often to sinful actions.

TheMessage captures this passage beautifully: 17Don't live carelessly, unthinkingly. Make sure you understand what the Master wants.

18-20Don't drink too much wine. That cheapens your life. Drink the Spirit of God, huge draughts of him.

The reality is, the Apostle is doing at least something similar here as the other "NOT" passage we dealt with. He's writing to them about being vigilant, alive to Christ, not careless, and he paints a picture. Not this, but that. While we know drunkenness is a sin, it's clearly not Paul's primary goal at least in this passage. His goal is an exhortation...

what's different here is how the "NOT" is used. Here's the ESV rendering:

Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what(AJ) the will of the Lord is. 18And(AK) do not get drunk with wine, for that is(AL) debauchery, but(AM) be filled with the Spirit, 19addressing one another in(AN) psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, 20(AO) giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father(AP) in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21(AQ) submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

The most obvious difference would be the additional contrast found in 1 Pet 3 -- not external but hidden is your true adorning. He's not replacing clothes or giving out uniforms, he's going to the heart of beauty.

The ESV rendering for 1 Peter 3:
3(E) Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 4but let your adorning be(F) the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious.

Quite clearly the Apostle is making a contrast here.


But, let's try it elsewhere & maybe we'll come out better w/ Rom. 13:13: "Let us walk honestly, as in the day; NOT in rioting and drunkenness 'ONLY,' NOT in chambering and wantonness 'ONLY.' But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ 'ALSO.'" Now, according to your method of interpretaion in I Tim. 2 & I Ptr. 3, we can have honesty, rioting, drunkeness & Christ all at the same time! You make the mistake of assuming all scriptures are exegeted the same based on one word (in your case, "NOT", which varies by the way with versions you use). The fact is, what helped us get the "not this, but this" idea from the text was not exclusively the word "not," it was other mechanics in the verse, not external but hidden... an obvious contrast. However, I think the same could be applied to this verse in a sense. He's making a similar contrast. We know, in this case, these things he's referring to our obvious sins, but that doesn't mean whenever the "not this but that is used" it's all to be read with the same definition as these words. When Paul does this, he points from one thing earthly, to another thing mystical, hidden, heavenly even. Same thing he does here.

Ooops, the consistency test fails when applied to other verses. Why don'y you guys just believe [& quit tampering w/] the Bible & save yourselves this embarrassment? Not really, rdp. It's not an embarrassment. It's exegesis. You're attempting to do what no exegete would do, use a broad brush to insist anytime uses the "not this, but that" language, all his subjects have the same value.

I could go on & on w/ these examples, but I'm a busy man. The fact is that your method of interpreation changes the very meanings of God-breathed Scripture, which is the basic meaning of heresy. No, the approach I've used has helped me and others understand how to read a 1st Century Roman/Greek letter. You can stop with the heresy bologna. The heresy going on is those who block the kingdom with laws they make up... straining gnats that aren't even there. From there you begin to wrest the Scriptures to your own destruction; not only your destruction, but the destruction of those that hear & believe you. If you want to do opposite from what the Scriptures actually say [esp. in regard to NT instructions to the church], you're free to do so, but pls. have the integrity to leave the Word of God alone! Actually, Mr. Word of God, we have a DUTY to rightfully handle the Word of Truth. We LOVE the blessings of word he's givne us. We value it and treasure it. We see beyond the legalistic eyes of dead religion and into the vivid, lively colors of life. This Word frees us. Saves us. Gives us life. Please don't pretend you have the corner on it.

More coming later about Rebekah, time permitting.

See above.