Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Sanctuary > Deep Waters
Facebook

Notices

Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #611  
Old 08-10-2010, 09:00 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,178
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Any one address the other nots in the bible that were not literally not???

Like "labor not for meat"

"love not in word"
Yes, but RDP couldn't keep up. He used some level of interpretation by saying they were "obvious" but didn't want to apply the same thoughtfulness or even consideration that "not" in the other verses was spoken with the same intent.

Anyhow. Merry-go-round.
Reply With Quote
  #612  
Old 08-10-2010, 09:03 PM
*AQuietPlace*'s Avatar
*AQuietPlace* *AQuietPlace* is offline
Love God, Love Your Neighbor


 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,363
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Any one address the other nots in the bible that were not literally not???

Like "labor not for meat"

"love not in word"
And "not the wearing of apparel"?
Reply With Quote
  #613  
Old 08-10-2010, 09:22 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,178
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
And "not the wearing of apparel"?
Enter the creative interpretation that "wearing of apparel" means "expensive clothes" not just clothes. Sigh.
Reply With Quote
  #614  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:45 AM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
You are good at talking to yourself, rdp, ol chap.

I almost was tempted to refute all your lame swipes, then I realized I already did that about a dozen times in this thread. I'll spare the air.

Ughhh, you haven't "refuted" anything, other than the Bible!

I'm off to go polish my rings. Have a great evening.
Yes, because you are blinded by your arrogance & rebellion to God's Word. May the LORD have Mercy on you.
Reply With Quote
  #615  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:48 AM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Any one address the other nots in the bible that were not literally not???

Like "labor not for meat"

"love not in word"
Oh my goodness...are you still comparing to verses that deal w/ natural things such as eating food & speaking w/ unnatural things such as decorative ornamentation on God's temple ?????
Reply With Quote
  #616  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:54 AM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Yes, but RDP couldn't keep up.

Sorry Charlie, I've "kept up" quite well. Moving right along....

He used some level of interpretation by saying they were "obvious" but didn't want to apply the same thoughtfulness or even consideration that "not" in the other verses was spoken with the same intent.

This would be about the 15th time [not bad for someone who's not "keeping up"] that I've had to demonstrate that you're comparing natural things [eating/speaking] to unnatural things [decorative ornamentation] & saying "See rdp is wrong, it says 'not'!" It's like comparing sleeping w/ smoking, then pawning it off in the same category. Sheeesh, really not even worthy of further comment.

Anyhow. Merry-go-round.
Indeed, because I won't allow the wordly liberals to nullify NT instructions to the church.
Reply With Quote
  #617  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:56 AM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
And "not the wearing of apparel"?
You've G-O-T to be kidding me. Pls. go back & reread how many times in this thread I've addressed this from the Greek, as well as several reputable translations.
Reply With Quote
  #618  
Old 08-11-2010, 09:01 AM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Enter the creative interpretation that "wearing of apparel" means "expensive clothes" not just clothes. Sigh.
I see, you must be a "KJV Only" guy? Have you not read the NIV, NLT, HCSB, RSV, etc., etc. [I could cite many more]?

Pls. provide your credentials in Greek to w/stand these approximately 300 Linquistical experts:_____________?

Ooops, you don't have any...just more of Jeffrey's hot-air theology pawned off as "exegesis".
Reply With Quote
  #619  
Old 08-11-2010, 09:57 AM
Truthseeker's Avatar
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,888
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdp View Post
Oh my goodness...are you still comparing to verses that deal w/ natural things such as eating food & speaking w/ unnatural things such as decorative ornamentation on God's temple ?????
No where have I compared food with ornameentation, where you get that from? I was pointing out wording in the bible where not is to not being taken as literally not.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Reply With Quote
  #620  
Old 08-11-2010, 12:35 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,178
Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdp View Post
Indeed, because I won't allow the wordly liberals to nullify NT instructions to the church.
rdp, here is the point:

if the word "not" does not function literally in other texts, then it means there is no such thing as "it's there, plain and literal for everyone to see." It's an example and reminder that these things require interpretation that includes understanding the context and how the word "not" is used.

It's not about making up false categories of "natural vs. unnatural" (sounds good though). It's not about making up drastic contrasts. It's an isolated point that the word "not" does not always have a literal meaning.

This was demonstrated many times before. The way "not" is used in 1 Tim is with a "not this, but this" feeling. It's not a universal prohibition for many reasons, not the least being there is no precedent for such a prohibition.
What we do know about NT churches is there was an issue of division in social classes becoming an issue in the church. The rich paraded their wealth over the poor (no middle class), and this even started in the church.
This is why The Message just about nails the "message" in this verse:

And I want women to get in there with the men in humility before God, not primping before a mirror or chasing the latest fashions but doing something beautiful for God and becoming beautiful doing it.

Furthermore, the contrast is not "not with jewelry but with simple clothing." The contrast gives us a clue of the feeling of the verse. Not with (insert what were cultural fashions of the day, and possibly even problems among the rich), but with good deeds (which have nothing to do with clothing). The irony of "good deeds" cannot be overlooked.

Women, you're beauty is not in the trinketts that can so easily get you off-course... that's not your beauty, your beauty comes from the good things you do.

The "braiding of hair" likely referred to the way some of the rich women would wear elaborate hairstyles, often woven in gold so that their entire head shined, it was also customary for the rich to show their wealth in eccentric ways, including wearing entire inventories of jewelry on the arms, hands, feet, necks. It was the world's way of showing power and prestige. At worship, this certainly only served to cause division and stepped away from the "neither male nor female, jew nor greek, bond nor free."

Again, learning and considering what the significance of this letter was to the church it was written to clues us in on how we can apply that today.

It wasn't the individual piece or kernel of gold, the pearl or even an expensive piece of clothing, it was the overall image of the women in the church flauting their social status in flambouyant ways. Paul's reminding them, that isn't Christian beauty. To simplify this issue into modern times and just read this as a prohibition on jewels and "expensive" items of clothing is to not really understand the situation in Ephesus.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Isaiah 43:1-28 shawndell Fellowship Hall 5 01-30-2009 07:18 AM
Isaiah 5 AmericanAngel Fellowship Hall 5 11-21-2008 09:58 PM
Are Cellphones Jewelry? Nahum Fellowship Hall 41 12-05-2007 11:37 PM
For Jewelry Wearers Only!!! ILG Fellowship Hall 27 09-05-2007 08:42 AM
****Prohibition of Jewelry in the Bible**** Nahum Fellowship Hall 126 07-28-2007 04:16 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.