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  #11  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:17 PM
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

I came across this article on the internet and thought it was a good, Scriptural presentation on the subject of giving and tithing. It does not have the usual hype or condemnation usually found in such articles. I don't remember where I copied this from.


The History of Tithing

The modern definition of tithing is giving 10 percent of one’s income to a religious organization. During New Testament times “tithing" referred to the Jewish practice of giving 10 percent of one's crops or animals to support the Temple. The words tithing" and “tithe" come from an old English word meaning tenth.

Genesis 14:20 contains the first Biblical reference to the practice of tithing. After Abraham is victorious in a battle against some neighboring kings, he gives a tithe of his spoils of battle to Melchizedek the high priest of Salem. It is important to note that Abraham tithes voluntarily and, as far as we know, he tithes only once.

It was not until 500 years later (circa 1400 BC), after the exodus of the people of Israel from Egypt, that God instituted a law requiring the people of Israel to tithe (Numbers 18:21-26). The purpose of the tithing law was to provide support for the priests and Levites who served in the Tent of Meeting. Another law requiring each Jewish male to pay an annual temple tax had a similar purpose to the tithing law (Ex 38:26). The Tent of Meeting was where the priests administered sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins committed by the people of Israel.

In about 950 BC, King Solomon built a temple in Jerusalem to replace the Tent of Meeting (1 Kings 6 – 10). Upon completion of the Temple, the priests and Levites relocated their sacrificial ministry from the Tent to the Temple. The people continued to support the priests through tithing and the temple tax.

From this time forward, the Jewish people practiced tithing with varying degrees of compliance until the last Temple was destroyed by the Romans around 70 AD. With the destruction of the Temple, the ancient Jews ceased tithing as there was no longer a Temple or priestly ministry in need of support.

The Christian Church emerged some time before the destruction of the Temple . Almost all of the first Christians were of Jewish descent, many of whom struggled with understanding how their new faith in Jesus impacted their practice of Judaism. The Letter to the Hebrews was written to such Jewish Christians. It taught that the Temple was no longer necessary, as forgiveness of sins now came through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, not through the sacrificial ministry of priests in the Temple (Heb 10). It follows that if the Temple and the priests were not necessary, tithing to support them would also not be necessary. Considering this, it is not surprising that there is no record of Jewish Christians tithing to the Temple after the foundation of the Church. Additionally, the New Testament does not contain any command that Christians tithe.

References to tithing in the New Testament are limited to Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12 and Hebrews 7:8-9. The verses in Matthew and Luke are spoken to Jews still subject to the tithing laws, not to Christians. In these verses, Jesus questions the priorities of Jews who place a heavier emphasis on tithing than on charity, mercy and the like. The author of Hebrews refers to tithing to make the point that Christ is greater than the Jewish high priest (Heb 7:8-9, see also Matt 17:26). The author does not instruct Jewish Christians to tithe. To do so would contradict the main theme of the letter which is to prove to Jewish Christians that the resurrection of Christ renders the Temple obsolete.

Soon after Pentecost, with the help of the Apostle Paul, the Christian faith spreads beyond Israel and many Gentiles become Christians. (Jews refer to non-Jews as Gentiles). The first Gentile converts to Christianity were often “God-Fearers." God-Fearers were Gentiles who appreciated Judaism and attended Jewish synagogue services, but did not convert to Judaism usually due to the circumcision requirement. As God-Fearers did not undergo circumcision and convert to Judaism, they were not expected to follow the Jewish Law, meaning they were not obligated to tithe, pay the temple tax, obey the sabbath and the like.

In each city the Apostle Paul visited, he evangelized the local synagogue first, resulting in God-Fearers and Jews converting to Christianity. These new Christians formed local churches in homes (Acts 8:3, Rom 16:5, 1 Cor 16:19, Col 4:15, Phm 1:2). Paul and his colleagues repeated this process in several cities, founding churches in Galatia, Ephesus, Thessalonica, Philippi, Colossae and elsewhere.

As Paul traveled from city to city, he would instruct his churches remotely through letters. These letters make up the bulk of the New Testament. Some of them were likely written prior to the destruction of the Temple (e.g. 1 Thessalonians and Galatians). Paul insists that Gentile Christians (including God-Fearers) reject circumcision and subjection to the Jewish Law (Gal 5:2-6). It is not surprising then, that Paul never suggests that Gentile Christians begin tithing to the Temple or paying the Temple tax. Nor does Paul--or any other New Testament author-- institute any system similar to tithing for the support of the Church.

Since there was no New Testament equivalent to tithing, a question arises regarding how churches were supported. During New Testament times, churches were not institutions. They did not have dedicated buildings or full-time leaders supported by attendees. Instead, churches were similar to modern day home groups. They met in homes with leaders who had means of income other than congregational support. New Testament churches, in other words, had no costs of operation.

Just because they did not tithe does not mean that the early Christians neglected supporting their leaders or giving to Charity. Paul teaches that apostles had the right to request financial support, a right Paul himself did not exercise because he did not want to burden the congregation (1 Cor 9:14-15). The churches also routinely supported widows, orphans and other poor people (1 Tim 5:9, Acts 2:45, Acts 6:1). Paul placed a special emphasis on supporting famished Christians in Jerusalem, asking the Corinthian Christians to take a regular collection for a time to support them. Before asking this, he reminds the Corinthians that the collection is voluntary and not a command (2 Cor 9:7). In summary, whether to apostles or charity, the early Church gave freely as they had means, not because of an expectation or religious requirement that they give a fixed percentage of their income. The Church continued with this voluntary approach to giving for over three centuries.

to be continued in part 2
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:19 PM
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

continued from section 1

In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Prior to Constantine’s conversion, Christianity was illegal and, as discussed above, churches met secretly in homes with part-time leaders who had other sources of income. After his conversion, Constantine made Christianity both legal and a status symbol causing the Church to expand rapidly. The Church moved out of homes and into buildings and employed full-time ministers, thus creating a much greater need for income. The New Catholic Encyclopedia's article on tithing nicely summarizes this situation and what happened next:

“The early Church had no tithing system. The tithes of the Old Testament were regarded as abrogated by the law of Christ…..As the Church expanded, however, and its material needs grew more numerous and complex, it became necessary to adopt a definite rule to which people could be held either by a sense of moral obligation or by a precept of positive law. The tithing of the Old Law provided an obvious model and it began to be taught—more commonly in the West, however, than in the East—that the faithful should give tithes of their income. When the view began to get sufficient support, it found legislative expression. The Council of Macon in 585 ordered payment of tithes and threatened excommunication to those who refused to comply."


Summary and Conclusions
Catholic Christians believe in the authority of the Pope, the Councils and the Bible. As such, they tithe as defined by the Council of Macon and later pronouncements on tithing. For Protestant Christians relying solely on the Bible to inform their faith and practice, understanding early Church practice as reflected in the New Testament result in some different conclusions regarding giving:

1. Each time the New Testament talks about tithing, it is referring to the Old Testament law requiring Jews to give 10 percent of their increase to support the operation of the Temple and the Jewish priests. The Letter to the Hebrews teaches that Christ's sacrifice rendered the Temple and the priests obsolete. This is why the New Testament never applies the practice of tithing (i.e. giving 10 percent of one’s income to support the Temple) to Christians.

2. The requirement that Christians “tithe" (tithing here meaning giving ten percent of one's income to support Church buildings and pastors similar to how the Jews tithed to support the Temple and priests) was devised by the Church in 585 AD, centuries after the New Testament was written. This further explains why such a requirement is not mentioned in the New Testament.

3. While the New Testament neither instructs nor suggests that Christians set aside a fixed percentage of their income to support Church leaders or church buildings, it does encourage Christians to give freely and generously to worthy causes such as aged parents, the poor, missionaries and Church leaders.

4. The New Testament states that Church leaders may earn their living from the Church, meaning the leaders may appeal to the Church for voluntary support.

5. The New Testament does not give guidance on Christian priorities when deciding whether, or how much, to give to the church, missionaries or the poor. This means the common Protestant teaching that the local church should have pride of place in Christian giving (before charity, missions or other religious causes) has no Biblical support. It is worth mentioning that 1 Tim 5:8, 1 Tim 5:2 and Mark 7:11 suggest that caring for one’s family and parents is a top priority.

6. The New Testament encourages giving out of abundance or prosperity. It does not expect sacrificial giving, although it does commend it. (See Luke 21:2-4, 2Cor 8:14, 1 Cor 16:2 and 2 Cor 8:8).
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:23 PM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
most of Malachi was written to the priests but Malachi 3:7-12 seems to be written to "this whole nation" (verse 9).
Brother Sam... I disagree with you on this one and I look forward to a productive volley of ideas which I am willing to learn from because I trust your intent. Your intent is always one of truth first... all else is secondary. I hope this is what I am able to present as well.

At this time I do not feel that verses 7-12 are speaking to the entire nation for several reasons which I will list so that I may benefit from your thoughts as well.

1. Malachi is very clear in Chapter 1 that he is speaking to the entire nation of Israel. He is also very clear in Chapter 2 that he is now speaking to the priests. There is no clear announcement in verses 7-12 that he is changing audiences. This is not in keeping with Malachi's demonstrated writing style. I see nothing, other than the "even this nation" statement in verse 9 that would indicate a change of audience. There is no clear indication of audience change at verse 7, verse 12 or any point in between except the remote possibility of the aforementioned verse 9.

2. I feel like I understand the reasoning behind the statement in verse 9 being viewed as an audience change indicator but I would like to insert another contextual possibility.

It is my assumption that you see the verse as follows:

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation. (ie... even this whole nation has robbed me)

May I present this contextual possibility for your perusal?

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation. (ie... you have robbed me... and not only me... but this entire nation)

As matter of fact... even if the context of the statement in verse 9 is saying that the whole nation has robbed God it would still seem that God is speaking to the priests. If I were speaking to you in this manner it would be proper to be speaking to you and yet say... you have robbed me... even this whole nation. The statement mentioned the whole nation in the sense that it does still leads one to believe, no matter the context, that the priests were still the ones being spoken too because he mentions the whole nation in a person indicating such. If here were talking to the whole nation he would have spoken to them in the first person.

If this contextual possibility were put into place then what we have is an entire discourse to the priests without any unannounced change in audience while remaining in keeping with the concept that the priests were keeping the whole of the tithe and were not only robbing God but were robbing the entire nation of the intent God had laid out for the receipt, distribution and use of the tithe. They had done this to such an extent that they no longer even used the storehouse and allowed people God had banned from the congregation to live there.

I look forward to your thoughtful response.

Last edited by Digging4Truth; 08-11-2010 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:26 PM
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

I don't feel up to posting today maybe later.I don't feel too well.
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  #15  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:42 PM
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
Brother Sam... I disagree with you on this one and I look forward to a productive volley of ideas in which I am willing to learn from because I trust your intent. Your intent is always one of truth first... all else is secondary. I hope this is what I am able to present as well.

At this time I do not feel that verses 7-12 are speaking to the entire nation for several reasons which I will list so that I may benefit from your thoughts as well.

1. Malachi is very clear in Chapter 1 that he is speaking to the entire nation of Israel. He is also very clear in Chapter 2 that he is now speaking to the priests. There is no clear announcement in verses 7-12 that he is changing audiences. This is not in keeping with Malachi's demonstrated writing style. I see nothing, other than the "even this nation" statement in verse 9 that would indicate a change of audience. There is no clear indication of audience change at verse 7, verse 12 or any point in between except the remote possibility of the aforementioned verse 9.

2. I feel like I understand the reasoning behind the statement in verse 9 being viewed as an audience change indicator but I would like to insert another contextual possibility.

It is my assumption that you see the verse as follows:

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation. (ie... even this whole nation has robbed me)

May I present this contextual possibility for your perusal?

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation. (ie... you have robbed me... and not only me... but this entire nation)

If this contextual possibility were put into place then what we have is an entire discourse to the priests without any unannounced change in audience while remaining in keeping with the concept that the priests were keeping the whole of the tithe and were not only robbing God but were robbing the entire nation of the intent God had laid out for the receipt, distribution and use of the tithe. They had done this to such an extent that they no longer even used the storehouse and allowed people God had banned from the congregation to live there.

I look forward to your thoughtful response.
Digging4Truth,
You may be correct. I have just thought that since the prophet refers to "this entire nation" there in 3:9, he was once again addressing all Israel and not the Levites. This could be sustained by verse 12 where he says, "all nations shall call you blessed: for you shall be a delightsome land." Also, verses 12-18 in chapter 3, and all of chapter 4 could be addressed to Israel.

I'm not arguing, it just sounds like you and I see this differently. And, by the way, if you've read my posts here you see that I do not believe tithing is a New Testament requirement, but if someone wants to use a 10 percent amount for his giving, I have no problem with that just so long as he does not try to make that a requirement for others or use it as a badge of superiority over anyone who gives less.

The Living Bible (yes I know it's a paraphrase and not a real translation) reads this way for Mal. 3:8-9:8
"Will a man rob God? Surely not! And yet you have robbed me.
"'What do you mean? When did we ever rob you?'
"You have robbed me of the tithes and offerings due to me. 9 And so the awesome curse of God is cursing you, for your whole nation has been robbing me.

In the NASB, it reads:
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
9"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you!

The NIV reads:
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.
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  #16  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:47 PM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Digging4Truth,
You may be correct. I have just thought that since the prophet refers to "this entire nation" there in 3:9, he was once again addressing all Israel and not the Levites. This could be sustained by verse 12 where he says, "all nations shall call you blessed: for you shall be a delightsome land." Also, verses 12-18 in chapter 3, and all of chapter 4 could be addressed to Israel.

I'm not arguing, it just sounds like you and I see this differently. And, by the way, if you've read my posts here you see that I do not believe tithing is a New Testament requirement, but if someone wants to use a 10 percent amount for his giving, I have no problem with that just so long as he does not try to make that a requirement for others or use it as a badge of superiority over anyone who gives less.

The Living Bible (yes I know it's a paraphrase and not a real translation) reads this way for Mal. 3:8-9:8
"Will a man rob God? Surely not! And yet you have robbed me.
"'What do you mean? When did we ever rob you?'
"You have robbed me of the tithes and offerings due to me. 9 And so the awesome curse of God is cursing you, for your whole nation has been robbing me.

In the NASB, it reads:
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
9"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you!

The NIV reads:
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.
Before going any further let me ask this question.

Even going with the assumption that God is saying that the nation is robbing Him rather than the assumption that God is saying that the priests are robbing the nation....

Couldn't these statements still be in keeping with God talking directly to the priests? It would simply be a statement TO the priests ABOUT the nation.

It doesn't seem to me that the context requires a change of audience in either case.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:51 PM
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
Before going any further let me ask this question.

Even going with the assumption that God is saying that the nation is robbing Him rather than the assumption that God is saying that the priests are robbing the nation....

Couldn't these statements still be in keeping with God talking directly to the priests? It would simply be a statement TO the priests ABOUT the nation.

It doesn't seem to me that the context requires a change of audience in either case.
Digging4Truth,
we're not arguing here. You may be correct. I just see it differently than you do.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:53 PM
corvet786c corvet786c is offline
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

Thanks for all the responses, I am slowly coming out of the belief that there is NO mandate in the NT. I was always taught that If I didn't tithe then I was robbing God and Robbers dont go to heaven but hell. I was always scared of this so I continued to tithe out of fear and didn't want God to curse me. Now Slowly my eyes are opening up. I still give and like to give freely. Some churches in my area still believe in tithing and I want to tell people the truth.

Lets just all keep this subject civialized. If you have an opinion I would like to hear it. I dont want to debate. If you are for tithes thats fine. Thank You and God Bless.

Last edited by corvet786c; 08-11-2010 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:02 PM
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Digging4Truth,
we're not arguing here. You may be correct. I just see it differently than you do.
Yes sir... that is understood and acceptable.
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  #20  
Old 08-11-2010, 03:13 PM
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Re: What is the truth on Tithing for us today?

I think "even this whole nation" is refering to priest robbing them as well.
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