New Bar at Gound Zero

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Twisp

Not really. You want the Constitution to not apply to this case, I do. Simply follow the Constitution and there will be no impasse. lol

Yup.

I appreciate Twisp's comments here and agree with them.

Once you start cutting into the religious liberties of one group, you set up bad precedent for every other group. If this mosque is forced out because of (let's be blunt) religious hatred, what's to stop the Not In My Back Yard crowd from protesting against an Apostolic church because "it's too loud" or "the women are oppressed" or "they don't believe like us"?

America is great in part because of our religious diversity. American Muslims are citizens like the rest of us and should be allowed to erect houses of worship where they are able.

I finally found the picture from Google Street View of the site of Cordoba House. It's on the left, where the Burlington Coat Factory sign is. This is not some sacred location, it's a narrow street in Manhattan.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KRrIq3tsnv...e+Location.JPG

Looking at that picture reminds me of why I live out West. That is just too much claustrophobia for me.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Twisp

How is it hypocrisy on his part? It's not like he just up and wanted to do this one day. He has been working to bridge the gap between Muslims and the World for years. He has written books to do this, he has traveled to other countries to do this, he has started non-profit organizations to do this.

This is what he has been doing in NY for the past 20 years or so. No hypocrisy on his part, he is doing what he has always done.

The hypocrisy is from people saying, "We have religious freedom" and then not allowing a certain Americans to exercise that religious freedom.

Again, at first, imam Rauf, insists the funds would be raised entirely from the Muslim-American community, but then he tells an Arabic-language newspaper in Britain that funding would also come from Arab countries. There it is again - Taqiyya.

That is why the question hangs in the air - Who is going to fund this project? If given the green light, they need to make their funding transparent. They owe it to all Americans and to New York.

Right now, Con Edison owns 49-51 Park Place and one of the organizers, Daisy Kahn (cited below) claimed she didn't know anything about it, the Community Board claimed they didn't know it, and others are saying they have been acting under false pretenses.

Where is now stands is that Sharif El-Gamal, the head of Soho Properties, bought the buildings (45-47 Park Place) in 2006, he paid an additional $700,000 to Con Ed for the lease next door, that lease expires on 2071, the walls were taken down and the buildings were made into the Burlington Coat Factory, Con Ed wants to use the purchase option in the lease, the Utility is doing an appraisal, El-Gamal will decide if he accepts the price of $10-20 million, he says the long-term lease is equivalent to ownership, but he wants to purchase it anyway - "the cost is not an issue", and then the sale proposal will go before the Public Service Commission and could possibly face a vote by a five-member board controlled by Gov. Paterson.

Disclosure would be nice for us all.

For their part, the two people at the heart of this center—Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife, Daisy Khan—defend the center as an antidote to 9/11. "Our religion has been hijacked by the extremists," Ms. Khan told National Public Radio, "and this center is going to create that counter-momentum which will amplify the voices of the moderate Muslims."

Perhaps. But it's hard to argue with the Anti-Defamation League's assessment that the controversy created by building the center at this location "is counterproductive to the healing process."

Without doubt Pope John Paul II did not share the more malevolent interpretations attached to the presence of the Carmelites at Auschwitz. By asking the nuns to withdraw, he didn't concede them either. What he did was recognize that having the right to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ...350430368.html

In today’s Wall Street Journal, Dan Senor pens an open letter to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf urging him to reconsider the location:

But the fact remains that in the minds of many who are swayed by the most radical interpretations of Islam, the Cordoba House will not be seen as a center for peace and reconciliation. It will rather be celebrated as a Muslim monument erected on the site of a great Muslim “military” victory—a milestone on the path to the further spread of Islam throughout the world. Someone who rejects the link between Islam and the brand of radicalism and violence espoused by al Qaeda and like-minded groups should be wary of helping to further, even inadvertently, the rhetoric and propaganda of those groups. Indeed, we believe that such a person should take an active role in opposing any measure or message that might be seized upon by those whom he considers to be the blasphemers of his own faith….Similarly, the exact street address of your cultural center cannot matter to the performance of its mission—but it very much does matter to the perceptions of your fellow Americans. We urge you to reconsider.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/0...ORDS=Dan+Senor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Again, at first, imam Rauf, insists the funds would be raised entirely from the Muslim-American community, but then he tells an Arabic-language newspaper in Britain that funding would also come from Arab countries. There it is again - Taqiyya.

That is why the question hangs in the air - Who is going to fund this project? If given the green light, they need to make their funding transparent. They owe it to all Americans and to New York.

Right now, Con Edison owns 49-51 Park Place and one of the organizers, Daisy Kahn (cited below) claimed she didn't know anything about it, the Community Board claimed they didn't know it, and others are saying they have been acting under false pretenses.

Where is now stands is that Sharif El-Gamal, the head of Soho Properties, bought the buildings (45-47 Park Place) in 2006, he paid an additional $700,000 to Con Ed for the lease next door, that lease expires on 2071, the walls were taken down and the buildings were made into the Burlington Coat Factory, Con Ed wants to use the purchase option in the lease, the Utility is doing an appraisal, El-Gamal will decide if he accepts the price of $10-20 million, he says the long-term lease is equivalent to ownership, but he wants to purchase it anyway - "the cost is not an issue", and then the sale proposal will go before the Public Service Commission and could possibly face a vote by a five-member board controlled by Gov. Paterson.

Disclosure would be nice for us all.

And again, show us where he insisted that the mosque would only be built with funds from the Muslim-American community. The link you provided did not say that. It said:

"The imam said the money would be raised here. But he told a London newspaper that Muslim nations would also fund this project."

That is not a lie. That is stating that the funds would be raised from multiple sources. Nowhere in that statement did he insist funds would only be raised from Muslim-Americans.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Twisp

What relevance does that have?

Twisp, you should read this article PO posted from NBC New York - http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...-99967009.html

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Twisp

And again, show us where he insisted that the mosque would only be built with funds from the Muslim-American community. The link you provided did not say that. It said:

"The imam said the money would be raised here. But he told a London newspaper that Muslim nations would also fund this project."

That is not a lie. That is stating that the funds would be raised from multiple sources. Nowhere in that statement did he insist funds would only be raised from Muslim-Americans.

You are kidding, right? LOL!

Analysis: NYC Mayor Eloquent Advocate For Mosque

Rauf also refuses to disclose who is funding the mosque's construction.

"The mayor is demagoguing an issue that is wreaking agony on family members of those killed in the name of Allah," Burlingame said. "Bloomberg says it's about the separation of church and state? The imam doesn't believe in the separation of church and state. He's laughing up his sleeve."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6749728.shtml

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Twisp, you should read this article PO posted from NBC New York - http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...-99967009.html

From the link:

In confronting issues like this, there must be a regard for decency, respect for the feelings of other human beings. It seems strange that the people behind this project are not more sensitive to that. That they are constructing this mosque right near Ground Zero seems like no accident. There is a tradition in Muslim history to build mosques near the site of great victories. I hope that has nothing to do with this.

Imam Rauf said: “I’m not a politician. I try to avoid the issues. This issue of terrorism is a very complex question. …I’m a bridge builder…”

You don’t have to be a politician to decide whether or not to condemn Hamas for its acts of terrorism. That’s not a complex question. It’s quite simple. Hamas’s goal is to tear down bridges between people, fomenting conflict between militant Muslims and other people.

And Rauf is rather vague about where the estimated $100 million is coming from to build this 13-story tower. The imam said the money would be raised here. But he told a London newspaper that Muslim nations would also fund this project.

Abi,
The last paragraph is what Twisp can't understand. Maybe you could explain that to him.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You are kidding, right? LOL!

You said he insisted the funds would be from Muslim-Americans. I am simply asking you to show where he said that. The article you gave did not say that. It had Imam Rauf giving two answers to where funding would be coming from. He did not say in the article that it would be an either/or situation.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Twisp

You said he insisted the funds would be from Muslim-Americans. I am simply asking you to show where he said that. The article you gave did not say that. It had Imam Rauf giving two answers to where funding would be coming from. He did not say in the article that it would be an either/or situation.

What in the world does HERE mean to you, anyway!!!

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Twisp, you should read this article PO posted from NBC New York - http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...-99967009.html

I have read that article. It is the article PO linked to.

Nowhere in that article did Imam Rauf state that he would only be collecting funds from Muslim-Americans. He said that the funds would be coming from Muslim-Americans and from Muslim nations. He said nothing about an either/or situation. PO might have gotten an implication that he said that, but in reality, he did not.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Twisp

I have read that article. It is the article PO linked to.

Nowhere in that article did Imam Rauf state that he would only be collecting funds from Muslim-Americans. He said that the funds would be coming from Muslim-Americans and from Muslim nations. He said nothing about an either/or situation. PO might have gotten an implication that he said that, but in reality, he did not.

Oh my gosh - I think I want to cuss!!! It's right in front of your ever loving face, dude!!! Good grief and holy moly!!!

You are doing this on purpose. I just know you are!