Rules provide no help in avoiding evil desires

[OilCityCajun]

See? Even you agree with all three of those decisions on the point I am making. A person can disassociate, but if they willingly associate, the church does have authority, so long as they do not violate civil or criminal law such as physically confiscating personal property without the owner's consent. You have yet to demonstrate that this pastor did that.

If you in this thread are the example of the type of professionals to whom it should be left, the case for tort reform has strengthened 1000 fold.

[Sister Alvear]

If you think I meant the pastor grabbed the phone I did not mean that...I think most people understand what I meant.
I am for balance. Far roo many people have been sacrificed on the altars of churches because of some man's ambition to look like he is the only man in some city with truth. I am against brainwashing people...preaching and teaching day after day that they are the only ones in some city that have truth...It does not only happen in OP circles it happens in many places.

I am a missionary and have given my life on the foreign field ... If someone wants to leave our church....my goodness I say let them leave...there are other churches in my town that preach truth...but to sit someone down and tell them if you leave some horrible thing is going to happen to you and your family is WRONG.

To be a leader is one thing to drive people and brainwash them is another thing... Making people think they are more spiritual are more special to God because of some man made rule is wrong...

At the same time their are rules...Jesus gave us rules {commandments} however He also taught us balance.

I believe the pastor has a BIBLICAL authority to teach, preach and do the duties as a minister but to be a cult leader no...

I have a hard time relating because I have a precious pastor...If I need him he is always there to give me an opinion...to pray for me and is a wonderful man of God...

I have NEVER heard him speak evil of another pastor and there are probably 25 church in and around his little town.

I think COMMON SENSE IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD take into consideration when we even look for a church to call our church.

As humans we all make mistakes...I sure have made mine...however if we keep our hearts right we are not going to be lording over God's lambs we will be leading them.

[Sister Alvear]

I don't have a lot of time...sorry....

[OilCityCajun]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

If you think I meant the pastor grabbed the phone I did not mean that...I think most people understand what I meant.

I rest my case. Mr. Prosecutor, Have you any other witnesses before I make my closing arguments?

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

<the rest>

I have never - on this forum, nor anywhere else - advocated tyranny, as the ultra-libs among us constantly accuse me. Nor do I advocate anarchy. I am 100% for balance, love, and mercy, as well as obedience and order.

[Sister Alvear]

I do not know who you are...and my remarks are just general remarks...blessings

[OilCityCajun]

Sister Alvear, I apologize if my last post was confusing. Although I quoted your post, I was actually addressing Baron (Mr. Prosecutor). It's all part of the topical tangent on which Baron and I went when you first posted about the cell phone incident.

a short recap:

Sis Alvear: Pastor took phone
Baraon: Thief!
Me: not at all...stupid but not criminal because took isnt literal
Baron repeatedly: He stole the phone
Me repeatedly: No, he didnt
You: Took was not literal
Me: See? He didnt steal the phone.
Baron: ...?

[Sister Alvear]

you are right he did not steal the phone...however my point is when a pastor says, hey give me your phone to avoid being tempted...something does not ring right in my eyes...I constantly am on the net to promote missions yet no one has to say hey, sister Alvear put a filter on your computer so you want be tempted...
Long lists of rules only provoke people to disobey. It is human nature to want to explore the unknown however we have the HOLY GHOST to lead us and guide us.
For example some of my friends sent me a post they were getting off facebook as their pastor asked them to do it...but slowly most have got back on facebook...We have something like facebook called Orkut...I wrote a little study and sent it to many of our people explaining how it could be wrong but at the same time it is a wonderful thing to use to keep in touch...that is why I say we must teach the people balance.

I am deeply thankful that growing up I went to Christian school. My kids all went to public schools and so do my grandkids. I have tried to help them learn the values of Christ and be a light in the dark school system of Brazil.

At some point in our lives we have to have an experience with God for ourselves. We have to have a personality strong enough to stand for right...

Some people do not know how to make decisions for themselves...and when tribulation comes on this world they are going to be in a fix...(of course I am from the old school that believes in tribulation)

Anyway..we all need a walk with God for ourselves...and in no way am I playing down the office of a pastor both my husband and sons pastor churches.

[OilCityCajun]

Yes, Ma'am. as I said...the whole cell phone topic between Baron and I was a tangent. It seems you and I agree on the main topic of pastoral authority as well. I.E.: Pastors do have some authority, but many usurp far more than God grants. We also agree that if someone's heart isnt right, all the standards in the world are worthless. My main point - and one on which I think we differ, if only slightly - is that for those who wish to do right, but are spiritually weak, lines must be drawn. And it is the God-given authority of pastors to draw those lines for the congregation where God has placed him to serve, not for those congregations our individuals outside his responsibility.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

Sister Alvear, I apologize if my last post was confusing. Although I quoted your post, I was actually addressing Baron (Mr. Prosecutor). It's all part of the topical tangent on which Baron and I went when you first posted about the cell phone incident.

a short recap:

Sis Alvear: Pastor took phone
Baraon: Thief!
Me: not at all...stupid but not criminal because took isnt literal
Baron repeatedly: He stole the phone
Me repeatedly: No, he didnt
You: Took was not literal
Me: See? He didnt steal the phone.
Baron: ...?

Ever heard the term, "larceny" ?

It is a form of theft.

[Sister Alvear]

how could I ever be a lawyer...I would be trying to love both sides....maybe a dayswoman....go learn what a daysman was in bible days....