Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation. - Page 25

Jermyn Davidson · #**241** 08-16-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Jermyn,
Jesus "commanded" them to "tarry in Jerusalem" until they were endued with that promised power.

Jesus told them to "wait for the promise".

It was something that He gave them. Something they could not give themselves. That is why it is called a "gift" and a "promise", yet Jesus still gave them instructions on the receiving of the promise - a command. He "commanded" them not to depart from Jerusalem until they were filled.

Not being a smart donkey but, I didn't wait in Jerusalem. I've never been to Jerusalem.

Furthermore, the "waiting" is not part of the scriptural pattern for believers speaking in tongues under the influence of the Holy Ghost.

Was Cornelius commanded to wait?

The disciples at Ephesus?

The pattern of the Tabernacle is relavant to the New Testament Christian experience.

The teaching that one will speak in tongues once they are saved to verify they are saved is not.

jfrog · #**242** 08-16-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroGary

We can say the same thing for the necessity of receiving the Holy Ghost, Mark 16:16 does not specify that either but we know it is required from other verses I have already shared.

The bottom line is that Peter got it right on the day of Pentecost when he shared that repentence, baptism in Jesus name, and receiving the Holy Ghost are all needed.

No we cannot say the same thing about receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues as I did with repentance. In fact, that was the entire point. We all know someone that believes and was baptized but never received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Jesus said that those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. So since there exists people who Jesus said were saved that have not received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues then we must conclude that Jesus was right and those people who have not received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues are saved.

BroGary · #**243** 08-16-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

No we cannot say the same thing about receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues as I did with repentance. In fact, that was the entire point. We all know someone that believes and was baptized but never received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Jesus said that those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. So since there exists people who Jesus said were saved that have not received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues then we must conclude that Jesus was right and those people who have not received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues are saved.

The thing is that the Holy Ghost was not even available for people to receive until the day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost was first poured out, so the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation could not be fully obeyed until from the day of Pentecost onward, but from that day forward, the day the NT church was born, it was required.

Pressing-On · #**244** 08-16-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Not being a smart donkey but, I didn't wait in Jerusalem. I've never been to Jerusalem.

LOL! Good heavens! So, you can't understand the principle since you never lived in the area? LOL! All of His words are for our example, whether we lived in the vicinity or not. LOL!

Quote:

Furthermore, the "waiting" is not part of the scriptural pattern for believers speaking in tongues under the influence of the Holy Ghost.

Was Cornelius commanded to wait?

The disciples at Ephesus?

I have seen some have to wait. Myself for instance. And I cannot speak for anyone else, but I had made up my mind to serve/give my life to the Lord and, therefore, I repented and was baptized. I did not receive the Holy Ghost right away. I found out that there were some other things, I didn't think were sin, that God apparently felt I needed to lay aside. When I laid those things aside, I received His Spirit.

Quote:

The pattern of the Tabernacle is relavant to the New Testament Christian experience.

The teaching that one will speak in tongues once they are saved to verify they are saved is not.

The Tabernacle in the Wilderness is very relevant to the NT Christian experience. It is spoken of in Hebrews 10 - the Holiest of Holies behind the veil.

Quote:

Hebrews 10:19 "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 "By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;"

21 "And having an high priest over the house of God;"

22 "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

His blood/sacrifice has provided the way. We must have our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (repentance) and our bodies washed with pure water (baptism). We then are filled with His Spirit entering into the Holiest of Holies - the secret place of the most High (Psalm 91).

Michael · #**245** 08-16-2010, 08:08 PM

BroGary · #**246** 08-16-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

LOL! Good heavens! So, you can't understand the principle since you never lived in the area? LOL! All of His words are for our example, whether we lived in the vicinity or not. LOL!

I have seen some have to wait. Myself for instance. And I cannot speak for anyone else, but I had made up my mind to serve/give my life to the Lord and, therefore, I repented and was baptized. I did not receive the Holy Ghost right away. I found out that there were some other things, I didn't think were sin, that God apparently felt I needed to lay aside. When I laid those things aside, I received His Spirit.

The Tabernacle in the Wilderness is very relevant to the NT Christian experience. It is spoken of in Hebrews 10 - the Holiest of Holies behind the veil.

His blood/sacrifice has provided the way. We must have our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (repentance) and our bodies washed with pure water (baptism). We then are filled with His Spirit entering into the Holiest of Holies - the secret place of the most High (Psalm 91).

Yep, the OT tabernacle plan was an excellent shadow of NT salvation of repentence, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Take the OT tabernacle shadow of baptism for example as to how very important it was -

Exodus 30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not....

Michael · #**247** 08-16-2010, 08:09 PM

Oh don't mind me, I'm just having fun....

jfrog · #**248** 08-16-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroGary

The thing is that the Holy Ghost was not even available for people to receive until the day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost was first poured out, so the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation could not be fully obeyed until from the day of Pentecost onward, but from that day forward, the day the NT church was born, it was required.

I love when people respond and say things that don't have anything to do with the discussion. The sky is blue... Red is a color... Dolphins swim... The Holy Ghost wasn't poured out yet... What does the Holy Ghost not being poured out yet have to do with what Jesus says shall save a person? And what does the Holy Ghost not being poured out yet have to do with people today (after it has been poured out) believing and being baptized but never receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

The bottom line is that we all know someone who has believed and been baptized but never received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Jesus said such a person was saved because they believed and were baptized. You say such a person is damned. I'll stick with Jesus.

BroGary · #**249** 08-16-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

I love when people respond and say things that don't have anything to do with the discussion. The sky is blue... Red is a color... Dolphins swim... The Holy Ghost wasn't poured out yet... What does the Holy Ghost not being poured out yet have to do with what Jesus says shall save a person? And what does the Holy Ghost not being poured out yet have to do with people today (after it has been poured out) believing and being baptized but never receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

The bottom line is that we all know someone who has believed and been baptized but never received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Jesus said such a person was saved because they believed and were baptized. You say such a person is damned. I'll stick with Jesus.

Jesus also said EXCEPT a man is born of the Spirit he CANNOT enter the kingom of God, so receiving the Holy Ghost is indeed a must also.

Pressing-On · #**250** 08-16-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroGary

Yep, the OT tabernacle plan was an excellent shadow of NT salvation of repentence, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Take the OT tabernacle shadow of baptism for example as to how very important it was -

Exodus 30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not....

The Word is lined out with such determined detail and beauty!! I'm am always amazed!!!