Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

The answer is obvious. In no way shape or form can it be argued or substantiated that all the individual jews were directly responsible for Christ's crucifixion.

Then Peter was out of his mind when he told the crowd on the day of Pentecost that they crucified the Lord, and his words are nonsense. Nothing else explains the purpose of his words. Please make sense out of that for me, for I see the YE being the YE and the WE the WE. You claim he was not talking to them all. Then why did 3000 of them repent that day if he told the ones who crucified the Lord to repent?

You sound like someone who disagrees with a viewpoint but has no explanation to the contrary to answer the actual context.

[Falla39]

Just as I related in an earlier post on this thread, about a man who was seeking for
the Holy Ghost. He seemed to be getting close to receiving the Spirit. Then he stopped coming to he alter altogether. His wife told me his Baptist mother, who visited a few times, told him he was saved. Said he didn't need to speak in tongues. Evidently he believed Momma, who had never never spoken in tongues either. Leading me to believe this was a type of spiritual abortion. Those who take the Word of God out of hearts that are hungry, are "aborting" the spiritual babe that was being formed inside.

No, sad to say, F--- never seemed the same after Momma interferred. I know of other cases very much the same. When that spirit that says you do not have to be born again as the scripture has said, gets into a church (through whatever means it came in), all those that believe that spirit, could be spiritually aborted! Abortion,. just as divorce, sins of all kinds, etc., etc., are in the church now.

We know some prominant denominal people in our city, who were supposely against abortion. UNTIL their son got a girl pregnant, who they didn't want their son to marry. They had great plans for his future and a baby out of wedlock, did not fit into THEIR plans. These parents met with the girl's parents and suggested abortion. They would not go along with this at all. They were of the same faith as the boy's parents. They told the boy's parents, they would have no part regarding abortion. They planned a simple, yet quick marriage. Right after they married, the girl miscarried. This couple have been married for many yrs and have four grown children and at least one grandchild. He is an attorney and she stayed home with her children all these yrs. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I sat in front of a precious lady last night at church. Sitting next to her was my youngest sister. They graduated from high school together in 1976. This lady and my sister were good friends in school and her younger sister was best friends with our eldest daughter. They graduated together.
Many years ago, this lady and her husband with their two small sons, came to the church my late father founded. Both of their families fought them, telling them all the reasons our church was wrong. They quit coming. Yrs later, life brought situations her way that caused her to call our eldest daughter. In desperation. She and her best friend, who also graduated with her and my youngest sister, came to church again, both received the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance.
Both were baptized in Jesus Name. You could not convince them against this
experience. No one had to tell them they received the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Much joy came with the Spirit.
Suffice it to say I believe an enemy had done much to try to destroy the church of the Living God. But the gates of hell will never destroy the church Jesus is building or has built.
I have said none of this to be disrespectful to anyone!

Falla39

[Digging4Truth]

All thoughts from perception. Perception creates our reality for us sometimes.

Of 21 conversions in the word... 18 never mention tongues.

That's a lot of abortions right there.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

All thoughts from perception. Perception creates our reality for us sometimes.

Of 21 conversions in the word... 18 never mention tongues.

That's a lot of abortions right there.

Not mentioning tongues does not mean they did not occur. That is an argument from silence. It does not prove it nor disprove it. The point is that all major groups of people who were converted have tongues involved as known by the information provided. No need to repeat it every time it occurred.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not mentioning tongues does not mean they did not occur. That is an argument from silence. It does not prove it nor disprove it.

Agreed completely. Would that we could all agree on that.

Originally Posted by mfblume

The point is that all major groups of people who were converted have tongues involved as known by the information provided. No need to repeat it every time it occurred.

Indeed... because tongues is a sign for the unbeliever. Tongues occurred on the Day of Pentecost. It was the initial outpouring.

Tongues occurred when Cornelius and his household received the Holy Ghost. It was the initial outpouring on a Gentile.

Tongues occurred with the 12 men at Corinth who had already heard & believed all of the gospel they had heard not knowing that there was more. There were 12 of them... and they spoke with tongues & prophesied. Did they all speak with tongues AND all prophesy? Did some speak with tongues and some prophesy? Any answer to those questions is mere speculation.

Paul said he was glad he speaks with tongues more than all of them. I speak with tongues. I spoke with tongues last night.

I was raised pentecostal and attend a UPC church and to tell you the truth my upbringing wants to see it. It has been born & bred in me that when there's no tongues there's no ghost.

But I can't back that up beyond the shadow of any doubt in scripture. I can speculate... I can fill in my own blanks... but I cannot explicitly demonstrate that premise in scripture.

We state "receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues" like it's a scripture or something.

I wish EVERYBODY spoke in tongues... because I'm an unbeliver... and I need the sign. Let's face it... we pentecostals... we're ALL unbelievers... until we see that sign.

I fight with this need that has been bred in me. I was raised to look for that sign and I want everybody to do it... not just for me... but for themselves.

But my statement is this. At the end of the day I cannot explicitly demonstrate in the word of God that tongues is THE sign of the Holy Ghost without which there is no salvation.

I can't show it.

And until I can... I refuse to treat people as unsaved people because they haven't fulfilled my pentecostal upbringing. As I have mentioned before I have seen people get up from an altar CHANGED. Really, really changed with changes they had not been able to make in the whole of their lives and multiple big changes that were immediate which caused people not only from church but from work and school to be in awe asking "what got into you?".

But they never spoke in tongues... sometimes they even stammered some... but when they got up... feeling something they had never experienced in their lives... they were told...maybe next time and that was the beginning of the end for some of them as freshly tilled dirt that had been tilled and made fresh and new by the Spirit of God was quickly planted by God's own with a seed of doubt.

Tongues is A sign. I can demonstrate that without any doubt.

Tongues is THE sign without which there is no salvation? Sorry. I can't demonstrate that and I've never met anyone else who could either although I've met many who thought they could.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

All thoughts from perception. Perception creates our reality for us sometimes.

Of 21 conversions in the word... 18 never mention tongues.

That's a lot of abortions right there.

Of all the natural births, how many are mentioned that they cried.

No, unless something is wrong, every newborn baby WILL CRY. THE
WILL make a sound! They could be still-born, or aborted in the womb,
or as in partial-birth abortion, they were pulled out, except for the head,
and they would twist a pair of scissors into the back of its litle neck and
kill it before the head could come out and CRY... make a sound!
May God Almighty have mercy on America, and the church!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Of all the natural births, how many are mentioned that they cried.

No, unless something is wrong, every newborn baby WILL CRY. THE
WILL make a sound! They could be still-born, or aborted in the womb,
or as in partial-birth abortion, they were pulled out, except for the head,
and they would twist a pair of scissors into the back of its litle neck and
kill it before the head could come out and CRY... make a sound!
May God Almighty have mercy on America, and the church!!

Blessings,

Falla39

Sister. I love you so much. You are such a sweet lady. And I am certainly not saying this or anything else I have stated in this thread in a "I know I'm right... I know you're wrong" fashion because I don't. But really... that's the whole point.
l
But your analogy is not scripture and you are treating it as if it were.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

All thoughts from perception. Perception creates our reality for us sometimes.

Of 21 conversions in the word... 18 never mention tongues.

That's a lot of abortions right there.

How many witnesses (conversions) do you need. In the mouth
of two or three witnesses, let every word be established. A court
of law will accept two or three witnesses.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Falla39

How many witnesses (conversions) do you need. In the mouth
of two or three witnesses, let every word be established. A court
of law will accept two or three witnesses.

Yes ma'am. And in the court of law I would stand with you and testify that, yes, tongues do exist. Tongues are real. Tongues are a sign. Tongues are for today.

But these are not 2 or 3 statements that tongues are the absolute sign without which there is no salvation. These are statements that certain people did speak in tongues.

It is only when these examples are viewed through a mindset that already believes that tongues are the absolute sign without which there is no salvation and, then, imposes that preconceive thought process onto these 2 or 3 examples that the conclusion you have proposed becomes a reality. But I can find no scripture upon which to base that preconception.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Yes ma'am. And in the court of law I would stand with you and testify that, yes, tongues do exist. Tongues are real. Tongues are a sign. Tongues are for today.

But these are not 2 or 3 statements that tongues are the absolute sign without which there is no salvation. These are statements that certain people did speak in tongues.

It is only when these examples are viewed through a mindset that already believes that tongues are the absolute sign without which there is no salvation and, then, imposes that preconceive thought process onto these 2 or 3 examples that the conclusion you have proposed becomes a reality.

Many believe that the baptism of the Spirit is not necessary for salvation, but that tongues are THE initial evidence of this baptism. What are your thoughts on that?