Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Point-being, you can't infer "Islamaphobia" in a context when there was no Islam (which was not established until the 6th Century?) It doesn't matter if they connect their history back to Adam, they weren't around. If I formed a religion tomorrow called Socialitism (has a ring to it), my starting point was today -- even if I claimed history. Prior to my claim, there was no Socialitism. No one 50 years ago will no what Socialitism is. Second point, taking the Geo-National Israel and comparing to the United States is sickening -- and mostly because in some people's eschatology, they preach this nonsense.

We are mini-Jesus to everyone, including our enemies. Have you forgotten what "love your enemies" means? What does it mean to you? What a swipe to all those missionaries in the mission field of Muslim-dominated countries. Good thing they don't approach everyone as an enemy and spit on each other.

Well I agree Islam was not around at the time.Why are you suggesting something I never said? I never said we should not love them. I never said ANYTHNG suggesting I forgot what that means. I never took a swipe at anyone. I simply pointed out TO THEM YOU are not a mini-Jesus. I never said we should not be Jesus to them

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well I agree Islam was not around at the time.Why are you suggesting something I never said? I never said we should not love them. I never said ANYTHNG suggesting I forgot what that means. I never took a swipe at anyone. I simply pointed out TO THEM YOU are not a mini-Jesus. I never said we should not be Jesus to them

Come on, Prax, let's not get back into that "I never said that" business. I'm responding in real-time, and my post is directed to Coadie. You popped in, and I addressed your objections. That's all this was.

You responded to this comment of mine: by the way Ding Dong, there was no Islam at the time of Abraham, 1-800-GETACLUE) with your own comment: Ding Dong, not according to Islam. Prophet Muhammed merely re-established God's truth that was lost over time and distorted by Jews and Christians-- and then proceeded to give me quotations to support that claim. If I misread your response, I apologize.

Regarding the mini-Jesus comment, you were speaking from their perspective? Maybe that's where I missed you. I'm obviously speaking from the perspective of a believer.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Point-being, you can't infer "Islamaphobia" in a context when there was no Islam (which was not established until the 6th Century?) It doesn't matter if they connect their history back to Adam, they weren't around. If I formed a religion tomorrow called Socialitism (has a ring to it), my starting point was today -- even if I claimed history. Prior to my claim, there was no Socialitism. No one 50 years ago will no what Socialitism is. Second point, taking the Geo-National Israel and comparing to the United States is sickening -- and mostly because in some people's eschatology, they preach this nonsense.

We are mini-Jesus to everyone, including our enemies. Have you forgotten what "love your enemies" means? What does it mean to you? What a swipe to all those missionaries in the mission field of Muslim-dominated countries. Good thing they don't approach everyone as an enemy and spit on each other.

Are you guessing?

The word Islam means "submission to God". The Holy Quran describes Islam as an Arabic word Deen (way of life). The followers of Islam are called Muslims. The literal meaning of Muslim is "one who surrenders" or "submits" to the will of God. In order to understand Islam, the basic portrayal of belief in Quran must be considered. According to Quran, those who submit to one God are Muslims. Aisha Y. Musa writes in his article, Jews in the Quran: An Introduction that, "Islam is the religion of all the prophets from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses, Jesus and Mohammad. (10:71-72, 84; 2:128-133; 5:110-112)." Quran also declares that all the prophets who came before Mohammad and their followers were all Muslims.

The origin of Islam dates back to the creation of the world. All the prophets who came to this world preached the same message of believing in one God and to accept them as His messenger. The prophets were also blessed with a manifestation of divine will or truth. Likewise, Prophet Mohammad was also a messenger of God. He revealed the truth and the way of life through the Holy Quran.

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural...m/history.html

I can pick up the phone and have several family members read the Quran to me in Arabic. It is against the quran to translate it into other languages. I sure you didn't know that. Translation also makes a perfect book imperfect.

What a swipe to all those missionaries in the mission field of Muslim-dominated countries

Our large family started a mission , school, farm and enterprise in the 1950's. In a Muslim country. We financed this without involvement of churches.I have met many Arab converts that move to America because they have a death sentence after conversion. My uncle is now a French and Arabic professor in his retirement and still starting churches.
We are very familiar with the religion of Islam from creation, to Father Ibrihim to Mohammad.
Prophet Ibrahim is the friend of God and the father of Prophets (37:109)they say.
'Tarakh' and not 'Azar' as stipulated by some Sunni historians as the father of Ibrihim.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well I agree Islam was not around at the time.Why are you suggesting something I never said? I never said we should not love them. I never said ANYTHNG suggesting I forgot what that means. I never took a swipe at anyone. I simply pointed out TO THEM YOU are not a mini-Jesus. I never said we should not be Jesus to them

In Christianity, Jesus atoned for our sins. In Islam. the infidel is sacrificed in atonement for ones sins.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

Are you guessing?



http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural...m/history.html

I can pick up the phone and have several family members read the Quran to me in Arabic. It is against the quran to translate it into other languages. I sure you didn't know that. Translation also makes a perfect book imperfect.


Not sure what point you're making here.

Our large family started a mission , school, farm and enterprise in the 1950's. In a Muslim country. We financed this without involvement of churches.I have met many Arab converts that move to America because they have a death sentence after conversion. My uncle is now a French and Arabic professor in his retirement and still starting churches.
We are very familiar with the religion of Islam from creation, to Father Ibrihim to Mohammad.
Prophet Ibrahim is the friend of God and the father of Prophets (37:109)they say.
'Tarakh' and not 'Azar' as stipulated by some Sunni historians as the father of Ibrihim.

It's interesting that your parents had a burden for Muslim nations yet you don't.

Of course they embrace their history and contexualize their faith -- just about all relgions that spring from Judaism, Christianity and Islam share the same history: the prophets. But the religion of Islam was not anything official until the 6th Century.

[Pressing-On]

I thought this information was very interesting. Following the link in the first article to the last I posted. Disclaimer: Dick Morris is not my favorite guy, but the links are interesting information.

Center For Security Policy is referenced in the last paragraph.

"Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the founder of the proposed Mosque, helps to prepare a Sharia Index which rates countries on their degree of compliance with Sharia Law."

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/groun...he-real-issue/

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.xml

Link on the Center for Security leads to this link,:

Ground Zero Mosque’s Hidden Websites: Follow the Shariah
Do the math. The 15 floors planned for the Ground Zero Mosque just don’t add up.
http://bigpeace.com/cbrim/2010/08/17...w-the-shariah/

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Come on, Prax, let's not get back into that "I never said that" business. I'm responding in real-time, and my post is directed to Coadie. You popped in, and I addressed your objections. That's all this was.

You responded to this comment of mine: by the way Ding Dong, there was no Islam at the time of Abraham, 1-800-GETACLUE) with your own comment: Ding Dong, not according to Islam. Prophet Muhammed merely re-established God's truth that was lost over time and distorted by Jews and Christians-- and then proceeded to give me quotations to support that claim. If I misread your response, I apologize.

Regarding the mini-Jesus comment, you were speaking from their perspective? Maybe that's where I missed you. I'm obviously speaking from the perspective of a believer.

I take it you are not prepared to discuss Islam from Creation, the birth of the father of the Prophets Ibrihim untill the writing of the Quran by the scribes on behalf of the illiterate Prophet Mohammad.

Islamic belief holds that the angel Gabriel spoke the Qur'an to the prophet Muhhamad and was ordered to recite (because he could not read or write). Muhammad later taught the Qur'an to the followers he gained shortly thereafter, who wrote these teachings on anything they could find, such as bark or leaves, or paper if available. After Muhammad's death, Abu Bakr compiled these teachings to form the original Qur'an which was copied and spread by the Muslims

Read more: Who wrote the Qur'an? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/31317#ixzz0x63dH4uc

Like Moses wrote of the accounts of creation, the Pentateuch even from 400 years before he was around about Abram.

I just used answerbag. There are a lot of stories floating around on history.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I thought this information was very interesting. Following the link in the first article to the last I posted. Disclaimer: Dick Morris is not my favorite guy, but the links are interesting information.

Center For Security Policy is referenced in the last paragraph.



http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.xml

Link on the Center for Security leads to this link,:

Funny you mention Dick Morris. The clintons were all activated and in a fit when Dubai wanted to buy P& O Falco and run our ports. How dare we have Ayrabs run our secure ports. During Bush this was like giving the Muslims a physical control of transportation. This was not a church and how dare they control an industry. They could put terrorists into Maersk shipping containers.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

I take it you are not prepared to discuss Islam from Creation, the birth of the father of the Prophets Ibrihim untill the writing of the Quran by the scribes on behalf of the illiterate Prophet Mohammad.


Not sure why you're coming to that conclusion. All religions may claim a history, including Islam, but it wasn't a recognized religion until 6th Century. Either way, we KNOW it wasn't a recognized religion at the time of Abram.

Read more: Who wrote the Qur'an? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/31317#ixzz0x63dH4uc

Like Moses wrote of the accounts of creation, the Pentateuch even from 400 years before he was around about Abram.

I just used answerbag. There are a lot of stories floating around on history.

Jews, Christians, Muslims, all share the same history. They forked in the road along the way...

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

It's interesting that your parents had a burden for Muslim nations yet you don't.

Of course they embrace their history and contexualize their faith -- just about all relgions that spring from Judaism, Christianity and Islam share the same history: the prophets. But the religion of Islam was not anything official until the 6th Century.

Actually you seem to be wrong on history as it is taught by the Muslims. The Qur'an is not worth much as a historical record. (it is not annointed)
Non Muslims pretend their history began 680 692 A.D. Columbus led his three ships -- out of the Spanish port of Palos on August 3, 1492

1310 Abu Bakari (Abu Bakar), a Muslim king of the Malian Empire, spearheads a series of sea voyages to the New World.
1312 African Muslims (Mandinga) arrive in the Gulf o Mexico for exploration of the American interior using the Mississippi River as their access route. These Muslim explorers were from Mali and other parts of West Africa.

You were not taught about the arab trips to America but were only told of the Spanish endeavors. You English folks don't get arab history in our schools.

I have a lot of Jewish and Muslim friends and business relationships. I get the scoop by phone direct from Israel sometimes.

Back to the burden for the lost. When I teach home bible studies, it is difficult when recently we had a Muslim wife as a student. She is not legally able to hear the word from another male that is not her husband. She does know English. We have to have another woman around and preferably her husband. She is his property chattel as they teach. It is different for me when I have students that are Americans converted to Islam. They do not know the rules, sharia and culture etc.