Tithe-vs-Paying Your Bills

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I totally understand we cannot live by the old law, but I'm telling you the promise of opening up the windows of heaven is attached to tithing today!. I've seen it.

Since tithing was a agricultural venture is was in perfect keeping with that understanding for God to use a phrase (open up the windows of heaven) that was used exclusively to refer to rain in the OT.

It is twisting the word of God to attempt to make this mean that God is saying that he will bless someone financially.

Also... if that were true that opening up the windows of heaven referred to financial blessings... and one were to understand the true intent of the writing... then the message of Malachi 3 would be this.

If preachers will take 10% of the tithe and will stop taking it all... which is against God's command of the tithe... then God will blessing everyone financially... or at least the pastor. Because God was talking about the priests misusing the tithe and not handling it per his commands. The priests were robbing God... even robbing the entire nation by taking more than 10% of the tithe that came in (among other things) and God was not happy about it.

Blessing comes from giving. We agree there.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Since tithing was a agricultural venture is was in perfect keeping with that understanding for God to use a phrase (open up the windows of heaven) that was used exclusively to refer to rain in the OT.

It is twisting the word of God to attempt to make this mean that God is saying that he will bless someone financially.

Also... if that were true that opening up the windows of heaven referred to financial blessings... and one were to understand the true intent of the writing... then the message of Malachi 3 would be this.

If preachers will take 10% of the tithe and will stop taking it all... which is against God's command of the tithe... then God will blessing everyone financially... or at least the pastor. Because God was talking about the priests misusing the tithe and not handling it per his commands. The priests were robbing God... even robbing the entire nation by taking more than 10% of the tithe that came in (among other things) and God was not happy about it.

Blessing comes from giving. We agree there.

What is the offering of malachi? Tithes and Offerings was what the people were robbing God over.

Paul advised that the ministry should live of the gospel which churches communicated to his need. At what point would a pastor then not take all the tithe? 50 K a year, 75 K a year, 20 K a year.. where is the line drawn?.


Your saying a blessing that you cannot contain is referring to rain. If the land could not contain it, would that not mean it would be a flood?

[Scott Hutchinson]

This is a interesting read.
http://www.newtestamentgiving.org/pages/1/index.htm

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

What is the offering of malachi? Tithes and Offerings was what the people were robbing God over.

Paul advised that the ministry should live of the gospel which churches communicated to his need. At what point would a pastor then not take all the tithe? 50 K a year, 75 K a year, 20 K a year.. where is the line drawn?.


Your saying a blessing that you cannot contain is referring to rain. If the land could not contain it, would that not mean it would be a flood?

Where do you get "the people" were robbing God?

[Digging4Truth]

I decided I wasn't going to even respond to this but since Truthseeker did and I got to reading it again... I'm going to go ahead... against my better judgment.

Originally Posted by onefaith2

What is the offering of malachi? Tithes and Offerings was what the people were robbing God over.

1. Tithes & what? Where do you get even get that offerings were involved in that discourse?
2. Where do you get that the people were the ones robbing God? It was the priests. They were robbing God... even robbing the entire nation.

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Paul advised that the ministry should live of the gospel which churches communicated to his need. At what point would a pastor then not take all the tithe? 50 K a year, 75 K a year, 20 K a year.. where is the line drawn?.

You're the one wanting to follow the example of the tithe. If you're going to follow it... follow it. And by that example the line wouldn't be drawn anywhere. The preacher would get 10% of the tithe. Then another 10% of the tithe would be used to pay the people who clean the toilets, the musicians, the sunday school teachers etc. And the other 80% would be used to minister to the needs of the people and that is the way it would happen if the tithes were $10 or $10,000,000. 10% is 10%.

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Your saying a blessing that you cannot contain is referring to rain. If the land could not contain it, would that not mean it would be a flood?

*sigh* Surely you aren't serious.

Let's take a look...

First... "Windows of heaven" only appears three times in the Bible. And they all refer to rain,.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it]

.

Secondly... on an agricultural basis rain brings harvest. Rain is needed for growth and a bigger rain is needed just before harvest time to bring the crops to fruition.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].
Malachi 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

God is saying... I will make it/let it rain and pour you out a blessing that there won't be room to contain.

Room where?

In the storehouse of course. Because the storehouse is where the tithe (which is agricultural) is kept. what is being said here is this... do what I say and it will rain and you will have crops the tithe of which cannot even be contained in the storehouse.

The priests were not even keeping the tithe in the storehouse. The priests had the Levites out working in the field to bring home food to feed their own families. If they weren't keeping the tithe in the storehouse then it was, apparently, being consumed by the priests or whoever the priests allowed to eat it. So the poor weren't being fed, the Levites were having to work in the fields, there was merchandising going on at the gate on the sabbath day.

The priests had not only stolen from God... they had stolen from the entire nation.

I just don't see where you are getting your thoughts from.

[Truthseeker]

Diggin4truth is the man!


To onefaith2 , should all scriptures on tithing being taught and followed???

[The Lemon]

I do not give out compliments very often on here, and I am not saying this to be crass or rude, but D4T just hit the ball out of the park.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This is something that I was thinking about the other day. On AFF, we talk about not tithing if that is sin or not. There is a lot of talk on her whether tithe is a 'candy stick' that preachers use inorder to line their own pockets or carpet their houses. The thought I was pondering the other day is this-would God rather you not pay your debts (bad stewardship) so you can make your tithe payment?

I know that God wants us to be good stewards with our time and money. Often times nowadays with the housing issues, credit crunches, high energy costs and job cuts it becomes very, very tough. I have not experienced this issues a whole lot in my life. But I wonder what God would rather have from us the tithe or us to pay our debt?

What do you think?

Here is another spin on the issue. If we are to be giving and believing the promise Give and it shall be given unto you, then why is it that we owe more than we make. The Bible says owe no man. I wonder if anyone can give me a different interpretation of that except owe no man? If we believe Acts 2:38
is a true Biblical experience that still happens today then what of the rest of the Bible?

[onefaith2]

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

12And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.



Where in this discourse D4t does it say that Malachi is addressing only the priesthood?

The first part of Malachi talks about John the Baptist. He is who the Lord will use to purge the sons of Levi.

The first problem with this discussion if you are convinced it was only the priesthood robbing God. Where do you get that?


Second
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

What in that verse says that the scripture just is dealing with the tithes?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I decided I wasn't going to even respond to this but since Truthseeker did and I got to reading it again... I'm going to go ahead... against my better judgment.



1. Tithes & what? Where do you get even get that offerings were involved in that discourse? Umm Malachi 3:8 D4T
2. Where do you get that the people were the ones robbing God? It was the priests. They were robbing God... even robbing the entire nation.
Umm No D4T.. see my post above.. where did you get that?



You're the one wanting to follow the example of the tithe. If you're going to follow it... follow it. And by that example the line wouldn't be drawn anywhere. The preacher would get 10% of the tithe. Then another 10% of the tithe would be used to pay the people who clean the toilets, the musicians, the sunday school teachers etc. And the other 80% would be used to minister to the needs of the people and that is the way it would happen if the tithes were $10 or $10,000,000. 10% is 10%.

[I]D4t if I wanted to follow the OT levitical law yes, I'm following the example of Abraham, all tithe went to the priesthood (dont go there with he only gave his spoils, if you read it the goods were Lot's and Sodom's that were robbed of them first, he returned what was stolen and paid tithes on it..?)[/I]

*sigh* Surely you aren't serious.

Let's take a look...

First... "Windows of heaven" only appears three times in the Bible. And they all refer to rain,.

d4T agreed, I thought you were saying the blessing was the rain.

Secondly... on an agricultural basis rain brings harvest. Rain is needed for growth and a bigger rain is needed just before harvest time to bring the crops to fruition.

Agreed

God is saying... I will make it/let it rain and pour you out a blessing that there won't be room to contain.

Room where?

In the storehouse of course. Because the storehouse is where the tithe (which is agricultural) is kept. what is being said here is this... do what I say and it will rain and you will have crops the tithe of which cannot even be contained in the storehouse.

Agreed as well, but today this applies to finances as well.. do we have storehouses today? I don't but I do have a bank and that is where the Lord builds increase for my family or provides for food so the bank isn't over drawn


The priests were not even keeping the tithe in the storehouse. The priests had the Levites out working in the field to bring home food to feed their own families. If they weren't keeping the tithe in the storehouse then it was, apparently, being consumed by the priests or whoever the priests allowed to eat it. So the poor weren't being fed, the Levites were having to work in the fields, there was merchandising going on at the gate on the sabbath day.

The priests had not only stolen from God... they had stolen from the entire nation.

I just don't see where you are getting your thoughts from.
I don't see where you are getting that the priest only were doing this.. please explain...

Awaiting reply and thanks for discussing! see my above italics for answers