Tithe-vs-Paying Your Bills

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

So he never stops speaking, yet the verses cleary show he did? Rightly dividing the word certainly can change ones interpretation.

Where? Remember, chapters and verses were later added to the Bible by Archbishop Stephen Langton and Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro in the 13th century. Prior to this Scripture was straight text or broken into paragraph form. The author of Malachi doesn't break from addressing the priests.

Give proof please.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

No your father would say, sell all your possessions and give to the poor and follow me if you were rich.

Only required when entering the tutelage of a rabbi in ancient Judaism. Christians in Jerusalem did this only once. Beyond that, Christians maintained individual trades and possessions, including ministers. Jewish Christians living in Judea continued to tithe until the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. Of course, this goes against tithing principle as practiced by Christian ministers today. Abraham tithed a tenth and gave the 90% back to the king of Sodom. Levites received tithes and weren't allowed to own land. If a minister of the Gospel functions per tithing principles... they are not to own land and are to live on the church grounds. Of course... this was Catholic tradition... i.e., the rectory.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Abraham was offering the customary tenth to the local ruler, the priest of Salem. It essentially was a peace offering, seeing he'd just sacked Sodom.

No offense taken. I'm enjoying the discussion. God bless!

Why do you keep saying he sacked Sodom. That is not what I am getting out of that. These kings got together and attacked Sodom and stole their stuff and Lot's stuff and abraham went and got it back.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Only required when entering the tutelage of a rabbi in ancient Judaism. Christians in Jerusalem did this only once. Beyond that, Christians maintained individual trades and possessions, including ministers. Jewish Christians living in Judea continued to tithe until the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. Of course, this goes against tithing principle as practiced by Christian ministers today. Abraham tithed a tenth and gave the 90% back to the king of Sodom. Levites received tithes and weren't allowed to own land. If a minister of the Gospel functions per tithing principles... they are not to own land and are to live on the church grounds. Of course... this was Catholic tradition... i.e., the rectory.

I see nothing wrong with a minister not owning land and living on church property but the current tithing system in place in most churches is not the levitical tithing law.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Why do you keep saying he sacked Sodom. That is not what I am getting out of that. These kings got together and attacked Sodom and stole their stuff and Lot's stuff and abraham went and got it back.

I'll have to read the passage again. Regardless, Abraham sacked the invaders of Sodom and took back all the spoils from Sodom, including Lot's things... because Lot lived in Sodom.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I see nothing wrong with a minister not owning land and living on church property but the current tithing system in place in most churches is not the levitical tithing law.

It's nothing but a man made system based off of the OT notion of giving a tenth. It's not a mandated NT practice. Tithing wasn't practiced by Christians for between 5 and 7 centuries after Christ. And that was only because the Roman Catholics, and land barons, instituted it to fleece the people. Fines followed if one didn't tithe. It was a way of fleecing the people and it ended under the various revolutions that swept Europe. Then it was picked up again slowly by Fundamentalist churches here in the west.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Where? Remember, chapters and verses were later added to the Bible by Archbishop Stephen Langton and Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro in the 13th century. Prior to this Scripture was straight text or broken into paragraph form. The author of Malachi doesn't break from addressing the priests.

Give proof please.

Ok..


6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept [them]. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken [so much] against thee?

14 Ye have said, It [is] vain to serve God: and what profit [is it] that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?


First of all the priests did not have land. How then can God stop the devour from destorying the fruits of your ground, and how can the priest's vine cast fruit if they had no land or no vines.

If you look at the narrative it wasn't just the priests who went after other gods, nor was it just the priests who said it is vain to serve God.

Also why would all the nations of the earth call YOU the priests blessed? He is speaking of Israel as a whole.

What more proof can I provide?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's nothing but a man made system based off of the OT notion of giving a tenth. It's not a mandated NT practice. Tithing wasn't practiced by Christians for between 5 and 7 centuries after Christ. And that was only because the Roman Catholics, and land barons, instituted it to fleece the people. Fines followed if one didn't tithe. It was a way of fleecing the people and it ended under the various revolutions that swept Europe. Then it was picked up again slowly by Fundamentalist churches here in the west.

Abraham's tithe was long before LEVI and that is the tithing system Christians ought to follow. A tenth of the goods you obtain. Abraham paid tithes of all.

Thats my take on it at least and I could be wrong

[The Lemon]

O.K. - this has been an interesting thread the last few pages, and here is my observation. I see those who do not believe in Tithing (as law) but do believe in giving, and even in perhaps covenant agreement, there is brevity given by this side to those who do believe in the Tithe and they have not condemned the literal practice of tithing, only when it is attached to the curse of the law.

The flip side is that those who do believe in the strict observance of the Tithe seem to be running in circular arguments (although amicably). Although it seems that the Tithe side of the coin is open for possible error, it seems to me to be a mirage, the truth as is seems, is that they feel they are right and the other side is wrong, otherwise there would be no circular arguments for Abraham tithing before the law (although it has been discussed ad nauseum that it was spoils of war and NOT all he had), and the whle issue of who God was REALLY addressing in Malachi.

What would really impress me is if someone from the strict 10% side actually had a good study layed out that counters the things I have seen presented by folks like Bro. Chris, Hashilliac, D4T, Jason, etc, and to this point it has not happened - although there are pages and pages of discourse.

This is why trying to convince someone who REALLY belives something is near impossible, one can't convince the other and so it goes, on and on....and on...and on. The reason I would like to see a study from the pro tithe side is because I actually do care about rightly dividing the WORD and want to be as accurate as possible. I am left at this point with having to look at the FACTS given, and what I see so far is a much beeter explanation by those who believe in giving from the heart and as the Spirit leads, rather than a strict 10% or your a theif.

I have been in Pentecost for nearly 20years too, and over the years have been a faithful Tither and belived all the rhetoric, and in my own life i have seen the blessing of God, and I have suffered hardship - a rounded view of things is my perspective now - i don't have a soapbox that I want to try to preach anymore.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

So he never stops speaking, yet the verses cleary show he did? Rightly dividing the word certainly can change ones interpretation.

Plrease show where he stopped speaking to the priest?