Tithe-vs-Paying Your Bills - Page 26

Aquila · #**251** 08-31-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

But yet you used him to say he was against tithing??? I happen to enjoy most of what I have read of his writings. I used him in the texts to show there was a structured giving that the early fathers advocated. So if the early church had none, WHO did it start with would be the question I would ask??

It's important to note that Irenaeus wasn't speaking for the entire church of the day. His writings are to be seen in context with the churches he was associated with. No doubt these had a structured giving system. I'm sure churches founded on the edge of the empire where Irenaeus wasn't present had a system also. But I highly doubt they were identical systems.

onefaith2 · #**252** 08-31-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's important to note that Irenaeus wasn't speaking for the entire church of the day. His writings are to be seen in context with the churches he was associated with. No doubt these had a structured giving system. I'm sure churches founded on the edge of the empire where Irenaeus wasn't present had a system also. But I highly doubt they were identical systems.

What churches was he associated with? Churches of that day seemed to highly regard his writings.

onefaith2 · #**253** 08-31-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't think our positions are all that different. However, I'd also state that it's wrong for a church to teach "tithe or pew", because it creates a class system where those who can afford to tithe are the only ones allowed to use the gifts God gave them. Those too poor to tithe are stiffled and treated like "second class" Christians. That's so wrong on so many levels.

I've never seen this instance you describe. people on social security pay tithes and God always provides for them. I'm not so certain that anyone that is faithful in giving will ever go hungry and be in need. They may not be able to give 10% of their money, but they are sure able to give 10% of their life.

Again in matthew Jesus paints another principle, seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall added to you (clothing, food, etc.) Surely as much as the Lord spoke about money (more than hell or heaven I understand from what people have studied) that we can seek him with our finances as well as our lifestyles.

Now the good saint who told me on here that he or she was given a car and the pastor stated he would have to give 10% of its worth is just plain ridiculous to require.

Aquila · #**254** 08-31-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

What churches was he associated with? Churches of that day seemed to highly regard his writings.

Yes, many churches in his vacinity greatly respected him. However, there were churches stretching across the empire. They didn't have television. Not every church was under his influence.

Aquila · #**255** 08-31-2010, 10:24 AM

Onefaith2, please answer this question with a "yes" or "no".

Is "tithing" a BINDING "requirement" on the NT believer?

onefaith2 · #**256** 08-31-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, many churches in his vacinity greatly respected him. However, there were churches stretching across the empire. They didn't have television. Not every church was under his influence.

They did send his letters many places. Otherwise the bulk of christianity would not have considered him a church father in that day

onefaith2 · #**257** 08-31-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Onefaith2, please answer this question with a "yes" or "no".

Is "tithing" a BINDING "requirement" on the NT believer?

No.

I don't believe it is. Supporting the ministry however is a duty of christians and is a binding requirement. (Ministry including to the poor and clergy)

That being said, I'm convinced God still is honoring the tithe principle. I'm convinced it is the best way to support the ministry and further the kingdom. I'm also convinced it is not the ONLY way to do it.

Aquila · #**258** 08-31-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I don't believe it is. Supporting the ministry however is a duty of christians. (Ministry including to the poor and clergy)

That being said, I'm convinced God still is honoring the tithe principle. I'm convinced it is the best way to support the ministry and further the kingdom. I'm also convinced it is not the ONLY way to do it.

Hey, then we're in agreement! LOL Nice chatting with you!

onefaith2 · #**259** 08-31-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Hey, then we're in agreement! LOL Nice chatting with you!

Likewise, sorry you do not agree with tithing as the best system. I'd like to see more of the opposite to see it work.

Truthseeker · #**260** 08-31-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Now the good saint who told me on here that he or she was given a car and the pastor stated he would have to give 10% of its worth is just plain ridiculous to require.

Why would it be ridiculous? It's an increase.