The Wizard Behind the Curtain - Page 5

*AQuietPlace* · #41 09-05-2010, 04:22 PM

I don't really view church as a place where I go to "get something", although I do get something. But I see it more as community, coming together to encourage each other, share our faith, pray with each other, meet each others needs. I certainly don't expect perfection. We're here to learn how to be disciples of Christ, and to be His hands in the world. If I pulled away from church, I'd feel that I had pulled myself away from serving others. To me that's one of the main purposes of church. To come together as a family, to share each others sorrows and joys.

Pro31:28 · #42 09-05-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I don't really view church as a place where I go to "get something", although I do get something. But I see it more as community, coming together to encourage each other, share our faith, pray with each other, meet each others needs. I certainly don't expect perfection. We're here to learn how to be disciples of Christ, and to be His hands in the world. If I pulled away from church, I'd feel that I had pulled myself away from serving others. To me that's one of the main purposes of church. To come together as a family, to share each others sorrows and joys.

I would agree with you , AQP, but in the other hand, some of the most precious times I have had with the Lord has been when I was without a church due to a move, or other situation. It certainly didn't feel like that at the time, but in retrospect I realized that I often depended on my pastor to tell me what God said, rather than listening for myself. Fasting when the church is fasting if is one thing, fasting when God calls you to is a completely different experience.
In addition to all this, I am a dyed-in-the-wool approval addict who will do whatever I can to please people. I am every home-missions pastor answer to prayer, at first glance. When I commit I will do anything, including teach Sunday School, help out with youth night, collect donations for the homeless and call everyone who has ever walked through the doors of our church to tell them that next Sunday is, "Wear Your Favorite Hat To Church" Sunday. Church has often been hard work for me, and when I would verbalize that I was tired, well-intentioned people would tell me that "The Lord is your strength", followed by, "Make sure you remember to bring a lasagna to the potluck".

Through time, prayer, an amazing husband, and an intuitive pastor, I am learning to curb my approval addiction, but I understand that sometimes taking a break from church, or at least taking a break from doing all kinds of things "for the Lord" can be a good thing.

Just a thought

CC1 · #43 09-05-2010, 10:45 PM

Algae,

How do you reconcile Ephesians 4:11-16 with your take on church attendance and the current role of a pastor, teachers, evangelists, etc in your life.

Also have you considered the state of the churches in the Epistles? Paul had to write them about how to deal with a man sleeping with his mother or stepmother! Doesn't sound much like a perfect Christian church to me. Seems like there has never been one.

For those who may think I am speaking too frankly to Algae we have been forum friends for a long time.

Praxeas · #44 09-06-2010, 12:17 AM

Who is Algae?

Hoovie · #45 09-06-2010, 12:18 AM

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Originally Posted by Praxeas

Who is Algae?

CC1's fav nick for ILG.

Praxeas · #46 09-06-2010, 12:46 AM

Ah...I see

ILG · #47 09-06-2010, 08:31 AM

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Algae,

How do you reconcile Ephesians 4:11-16 with your take on church attendance and the current role of a pastor, teachers, evangelists, etc in your life.

I have a lot of thoughts on this and not sure that I will share them all, but when I was LOOKING for this in my life, I couldn't find it. Just a lot of heartache and bad advice. My first pastor was more a pastor than anyone, but he was never very involved and left me down countless times. He never called after we left nor have any of the others that were supposed to care about this. Later, when we were attending the trinitarian church, my husband approached the pastor about sponsoring him for being a minister for global (you have to have a sponsor) and my husband gave him the paperwork. The pastor said he would get back to my husband on it and never did.....and that wasn't the first time he did that sort of thing. It was just more of the same. My son, I wanted to get him involved in some volunteer work and I set things up with the youth pastor for my son to do some computer work for the church, talked to him about our background (we also did that with the pastor in a formal meeting) and the youth pastor said he would get back with us after he went on a trip. I asked him if he would like an email reminder. He said he would. I sent him three email reminders and he never got back with us (we had communicated by email previously so I know his address worked). My family has been hurt enough. We really liked this church above all the others and the ministry and everything. Everyone who we have tried to respect as leadership has voted themselves out of the position. I am done trying. It has occurred to me that God doesn't necessarily want this for my life. When do you stop beating your head on a brick wall? I got sick last year and that is when we stopped going to church. It wasn't really an intentional thing, but it felt so good that we just kept skipping and skipping until here we are.

I have been reading books by Bart Erhman and it makes me question a lot. If you have read his books at all, you will know what I am questioning. The first book I read by him, I cried and it was as if a fresh breeze blew into my life.

Quote:

Also have you considered the state of the churches in the Epistles? Paul had to write them about how to deal with a man sleeping with his mother or stepmother! Doesn't sound much like a perfect Christian church to me. Seems like there has never been one.

Probably never has been one. Sounds like a good reason to stay away, maybe.

Quote:

For those who may think I am speaking too frankly to Algae we have been forum friends for a long time.

Nah.....CC1 is just showing he cares, that's all.

You never did answer my question about your kids. What are you afraid is going to happen to them if they quit going to church?

CC1 · #48 09-06-2010, 08:56 AM

Algae, I apologize for not answering your question about my kids and church. Somehow I missed it.

I have been patient with my child who is not attending church. The reason I am concerned is that I believe in the scripture I pointed out to you. I believe pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc are all in our lives for the reasons pointed out in Ephesians.

Why would I not be concerned about someone who shuns some of the key inputs the Bible says are there to develop us as Christians?

Plus it is not like he is having home church or is praying or studying the world like he should. The funny thing is that of all of my kids he is the one I never thought would go through this phase. There was a period of time I felt deep down that he might even enter the ministry.

I believe there is a spirit of rebellion and narcicissm operating in the world today in a great way. Particularly among young people. The spirit of the age is to adapt everything to fit yourself. What makes you comfortable. Truths or processes that are uncomfortable are avoided. I believe that is a dangerous state to be in.

I don't want my kids to have escaped the legalism of my religous upbringing to only go to the other extreme where organized religon is shunned.

missourimary · #49 09-06-2010, 09:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Sarah

I appreciate this post so much, CC1. You just have a way with words! I hope ILG will take them to heart. Not only do we have ourselves to think of, but we have a HUGE responsibility to our children and grandchildren. Without God and the church, where would we be?

Without GOD, we would be lost. Without the church? Depends on your definition of church, and the kind of church you know, I suppose.

The church doesn't save us. Only Jesus can do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

How do you reconcile Ephesians 4:11-16 with your take on church attendance and the current role of a pastor, teachers, evangelists, etc in your life.

Also have you considered the state of the churches in the Epistles? Paul had to write them about how to deal with a man sleeping with his mother or stepmother! Doesn't sound much like a perfect Christian church to me. Seems like there has never been one...

Do we have to go to church to have people in those various roles in our lives?

The difference between what ILG and I and others have experienced and what happened in Corinth is that the leadership in Corinthians didn't put themselves in the place of God. People make mistakes, and even blatantly sin. But Paul took steps to resolve the issue in Corinthians. Too often today people only take steps to hide the issues, including condemning those who would speak out against sin.

ILG, thanks for the post.

missourimary · #50 09-06-2010, 09:11 AM

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Originally Posted by iceniez

Very interesting, I don't have much faith in the Machine , I do believe it is broken , and in need of repair..... But still there is hope God is different , He is not a man and can't lie. We have to please him,and Him alone .I am trying to learn that and how to do that. { according to what He teaches me in his word } Not based on religion, or tradition.The hard part is being looked at as sinners by those who say they are Christian [ apostolic ] because we don't fit in.

Jesus didn't fit in either. They called Him a sinner, too. When I read about Bartimaeus being thrown out of the temple for saying he followed Jesus, I realized that Jesus was probably thrown out too, if His followers were. That thought has been a comfort.